Are female pastors a good thing?
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25-09-2013, 09:03 AM
Are female pastors a good thing?
As an atheist I view this issue as a non issue and believe that more pastors are a bad thing. What do other atheists think of this issue?

I have noticed from prominent atheists that the barring of women into priesthood is viewed as thing to demonize the church.


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25-09-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
(25-09-2013 09:03 AM)I and I Wrote:  As an atheist I view this issue as a non issue and believe that more pastors are a bad thing. What do other atheists think of this issue?

I have noticed from prominent atheists that the barring of women into priesthood is viewed as thing to demonize the church.


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The issue has nothing to do with pastors or the number of pastors. The issue is about treating women as less equal and less important than men. As long as men are pastors and are allowed to be pastors, so should women be.

Now, if you want to discuss whether there should be ANY pastors, male or female, that's different entirely.

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25-09-2013, 09:28 AM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
I think church leaders should be gender-exclusive, alternating gender every ten years. Any leaders who wish to change gender to keep their position may do so.

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25-09-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
I think the men - run churches could do well with some women thrown in there. Not that women are less delusional, but they have a different approach to a lot of things. Anything that is run just by one gender lacks something.

I am all for female priests and pastors and every other profession under the sun.

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25-09-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
(25-09-2013 09:03 AM)I and I Wrote:  As an atheist I view this issue as a non issue and believe that more pastors are a bad thing. What do other atheists think of this issue?

I have noticed from prominent atheists that the barring of women into priesthood is viewed as thing to demonize the church.


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looking at your negative rep I would say this is not a question you should really be asking in this forum. Doubt this will go the way you want.

By the way what do atheist care about this for? I am for equality. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the ethical and safest way to live. You cannot expect half of your species to just lay down and take it forever.

My guess is you are not all that clear and knowledgeable about the female of our species.
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25-09-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
A: religious organizations are bad.
A→B: growth of religious organizations is bad.
A→C: more people within religious organizations is bad.
D: equality within religious organizations will lead to more people within religious organizations
(A∧D)→E: therefore equality within religious organizations is bad.

Shit, that's almost logical! You both said it was a non-issue and then gave an opinion, mind, which is less so. Baby steps, I and I. Baby steps.

Most systems of secular morality would begin from the assertion that equality a good thing in an of itself. Realistically one must assess [what one perceives to be] the good and bad consequences of the premises.

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25-09-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
(25-09-2013 10:05 AM)cjlr Wrote:  A: religious organizations are bad.
A→B: growth of religious organizations is bad.
A→C: more people within religious organizations is bad.
D: equality within religious organizations will lead to more people within religious organizations
(A∧D)→E: therefore equality within religious organizations is bad.

Shit, that's almost logical! You both said it was a non-issue and then gave an opinion, mind, which is less so. Baby steps, I and I. Baby steps.

Most systems of secular morality would begin from the assertion that equality a good thing in an of itself. Realistically one must assess [what one perceives to be] the good and bad consequences of the premises.

While I do enjoy letting the Catholic Church continue to dig itself into the ground (by creating men like excubitor); I am torn by the amount of damage they (and others) will cause in their death-throws. I'd prefer whichever option caused the least amount of suffering. If a transition to a more inclusive and female welcoming clergy helps wean more people away from dangerous religious literal-ism more quickly, then I'm all for it. If however it would be better off in the long run for us to be over religion faster by letting more of it remain horribly misogynistic? Like I said, whichever results in less net suffering would be my preferred option.

However I will say that, on principle, I believe in the equality of the sexes and would want to see women be allowed to serve as clergy if they so chose.

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25-09-2013, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2013 01:53 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
Episcopalians/Anglicans ordain priests who are women. Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Methodists ordain women. Catholics have women priests and pastors, deacons, and sub-deacons.
http://romancatholicwomenpriests.org/ordained.htm

(Some nut jobs would consider that the "magic words" to have not "taken"), but nonetheless they and their parishes/communities consider them as authentic The authority paradigm in the early church was bottom up, (not top down ... presbyters were ELECTED not appointed, by their congregations... the REAL tradition...), so if you buy the idea that the "Spirit is working", then you probably should accept them as authentic. The idea that Jebus would only allow the magic to "work" depending on relative different levels of circulating testosterone hormone, (priests are NEVER tested for their hormone levels, or for genetic defects, which of course many have). All men and ALL women have testosterone circulating. So I would recommend that all seminaries start having a "hormone day", and maybe a "drop your drawers" day, so everyone can be checked. Oh wait. Seminaries already do the "drop your drawers" thing.

There was a real authentic woman apostle, whom you probably never heard about, secondary to propaganda restrictions, and the old men usually in power,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junia

What was the Idiot question ? Oh yeah.
Who cares. They have priests, of both sexes. The Romans will never change their official stance. Ok. So, what will be the next idiot thread today ? Jebus only knows.

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25-09-2013, 12:53 PM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
The thing that bothers me the most about this is the fact that they can't produce a singe shred of evidence stating that men are somehow better than women in this leadership role, yet it's common practice ( and even a praise-worthy act in some circles) to not let women become preachers.
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25-09-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: Are female pastors a good thing?
(25-09-2013 10:05 AM)cjlr Wrote:  A: religious organizations are bad.
A→B: growth of religious organizations is bad.
A→C: more people within religious organizations is bad.
D: equality within religious organizations will lead to more people within religious organizations
(A∧D)→E: therefore equality within religious organizations is bad.

Shit, that's almost logical! You both said it was a non-issue and then gave an opinion, mind, which is less so. Baby steps, I and I. Baby steps.

Most systems of secular morality would begin from the assertion that equality a good thing in an of itself. Realistically one must assess [what one perceives to be] the good and bad consequences of the premises.

I'd disagree with D. Increase in female representation in the clergy (in some denominations, an increase from 0) won't NECESSARILY result in an increase in the size of the organization. It could easily be a shift rather than an expansion. Expansion wouldn't be unexpected, but I'm not prepared to accept it unanalyzed as a premise.

A could do with some analysis as well. Part of what makes many religious organizations awful is hierarchical structure that ignores or actively denigrates women, in their own religion and in society at large, and it would not be totally irrational to suppose that empowering women in these organizations could reduce the degree of awful. This improvement might serve to more than offset the awful that would come from hypothetical growth, depending on the degrees involved.

(I'd also say that there exists exceptions to A anyway, but these are largely liberal institutions that don't bar women from their clergy in the first place, so not an issue for this discussion.)
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