Are femboys the new girls
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20-04-2015, 06:28 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:16 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 06:12 AM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  +they are just usefull ways to understand context.. also your brain effects your behavior. thus it defines personality types.


Your brain does affect behavior, but I'm not seeing any evidence that men and women are prone to liking/doing something, or walking/standing in a certain way, or really having any behavior distinguishable from one another. If what you say is true, then, again, why can't you tell men apart from women online unless they tell you about their sex?

sorry that last one was a bad point of yours.. because it feeds into my point.. science dose say men and women move differently.. and how your brain dose effect what you liked and dislike.. but if you followed the studies a man can have a more feminine brain... and as for telling who someone is over the internet.. it' a mute point because so much is lost over the internet anyway. thus you can't tell a lot things about a person online{and your ponit was again???}

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20-04-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:23 AM)One Above All Wrote:  kunoxian drive, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to focus on discussing this with undergroundp for now. I can barely understand you, and I'm not sure you're understanding me. Besides, she made a point that might prove me wrong.

thats ok... It's something I am working on.

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20-04-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:30 AM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 06:23 AM)One Above All Wrote:  kunoxian drive, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to focus on discussing this with undergroundp for now. I can barely understand you, and I'm not sure you're understanding me. Besides, she made a point that might prove me wrong.

thats ok... It's something I am working on.

Have you tried using speech recognition to write? It's more or less accurate, if you have a good enough microphone and can speak without a thick accent. It can also help you write, since it shows what it thinks you're trying to say.

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20-04-2015, 06:36 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:33 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 06:30 AM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  thats ok... It's something I am working on.

Have you tried using speech recognition to write? It's more or less accurate, if you have a good enough microphone and can speak without a thick accent. It can also help you write, since it shows what it thinks you're trying to say.

I wish I could afford a good microphone but alas, I am very poor.

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20-04-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:20 AM)One Above All Wrote:  If being "feminine" and "masculine" is not about behavior but appearance, then the terms become meaningful, but useless, since we already have a word for it: androgyny.

Well, to be fair, our behavior is highly determined by our hormones, which tend to be different in the two sexes. I must admit however that they're not defining enough as far as sex is concerned (there are too many women with extra testosterone for example for it to be so rare).
However, as far as appearance is concerned, the word "androgyny" cannot replace every use of the words "feminine" and "masculine". If you say that a man looks "masculine" because he has big muscles and a beard, you can't say he looks "androgynous".

(20-04-2015 06:20 AM)One Above All Wrote:  I meant that using a stereotype to define a word makes that word meaningless. If black" were defined like racists define it (criminals, the whole lot of 'em!), would that make the term meaningful in any way?

Again, linguistics are supposed to explain what the use of a word is by most people. Most people won't tell you that "black" means "criminal". You can't talk about a white person and say he looks "black" because black people are traditionally thought to be criminals by a specific group of people, but you can say that a piece of clothing looks feminine, because it has been traditionally worn by women for centuries.

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20-04-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:36 AM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 06:33 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Have you tried using speech recognition to write? It's more or less accurate, if you have a good enough microphone and can speak without a thick accent. It can also help you write, since it shows what it thinks you're trying to say.

I wish I could afford a good microphone but alas, I am very poor.

Doesn't have to be very good. I bought a headset for €10, I think, and it worked fine (until I dropped it and broke part of it - now there's a constant static).

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20-04-2015, 06:44 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
the last one I got sucked so bad I started refusing it for that very purpose... ty anyway.

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20-04-2015, 06:48 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:16 AM)One Above All Wrote:  They can't be useful is they're meaningless. If I said I was a flurblegargle, would that be useful in any way? What if I told you a flurblegargle was someone who had a flurble and gargled? Would that help?
This is how I see the whole "masculine"/"feminine" thing.

Gotta say... That is a terrible example. Feminine and masculine traits are things that are either rooted in societal tradition, or could potentially be ascribed to statistically demonstrable commonalities among women or men that are significantly less frequently found among the opposite.

As society evolves, there may be less or different things considered masculine or feminine. If most men were to frequently wear lipstick, it would eventually stop being seen as feminine. Then, if women stopped wearing it, and men continued to, it may even be seen as masculine.

They may be societally defined, but whether you like it or not, those terms have meanings.
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20-04-2015, 06:48 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Well, to be fair, our behavior is highly determined by our hormones, which tend to be different in the two sexes. I must admit however that they're not defining enough as far as sex is concerned (there are too many women with extra testosterone for example for it to be so rare).

Indeed.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  However, as far as appearance is concerned, the word "androgyny" cannot replace every use of the words "feminine" and "masculine". If you say that a man looks "masculine" because he has big muscles and a beard, you can't say he looks "androgynous".

Congratulations! You have just defined "masculine" and "feminine" in a way that makes sense (to me) in some contexts (this is a relevant distinction; I explain why below). I think the issue was that most people who use those terms use it exclusively to describe behavior, rather than appearance. At least AFAIK.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Most people won't tell you that "black" means "criminal".

Not now, no. Traditionally (say... 50-100 years in the past), though? They would have. In fact, they did.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  You can't talk about a white person and say he looks "black" because black people are traditionally thought to be criminals by a specific group of people, but you can say that a piece of clothing looks feminine, because it has been traditionally worn by women for centuries.

The problem with that is some traditional female clothing started as traditional male (sometimes gender-neutral) clothing. How "traditional" (old) does "tradition" have to be to be the most relevant tradition? That's why, above, I say the terms make sense in some contexts.

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20-04-2015, 07:14 AM
RE: Are femboys the new girls
(20-04-2015 06:48 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Well, to be fair, our behavior is highly determined by our hormones, which tend to be different in the two sexes. I must admit however that they're not defining enough as far as sex is concerned (there are too many women with extra testosterone for example for it to be so rare).

Indeed.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  However, as far as appearance is concerned, the word "androgyny" cannot replace every use of the words "feminine" and "masculine". If you say that a man looks "masculine" because he has big muscles and a beard, you can't say he looks "androgynous".

Congratulations! You have just defined "masculine" and "feminine" in a way that makes sense (to me) in some contexts (this is a relevant distinction; I explain why below). I think the issue was that most people who use those terms use it exclusively to describe behavior, rather than appearance. At least AFAIK.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Most people won't tell you that "black" means "criminal".

Not now, no. Traditionally (say... 50-100 years in the past), though? They would have. In fact, they did.

(20-04-2015 06:38 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  You can't talk about a white person and say he looks "black" because black people are traditionally thought to be criminals by a specific group of people, but you can say that a piece of clothing looks feminine, because it has been traditionally worn by women for centuries.

The problem with that is some traditional female clothing started as traditional male (sometimes gender-neutral) clothing. How "traditional" (old) does "tradition" have to be to be the most relevant tradition? That's why, above, I say the terms make sense in some contexts.

I don't think we disagree in something here.

Well, let me wrap it up with this then:
Imagine a future where the differences between the two sexes are minimized and/or wiped out. You havewrite an article about the clothes women and men wore in the past. You could perfectly say that "dresses were considered to be feminine", meaning that they were considered to be clothes worn by women. That means that even if someday there are 0 differences between the sexes, words like "feminine" and "masculine" can still have meaning.

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