Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
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07-11-2013, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2013 04:55 PM by kim.)
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
Sam Harris has expressed frustration with being labeled an atheist and often employs ignostic arguments criticizing the ambiguous and inconsistent definitions of "God". Harris finds the label and concept of atheism as extraneous as needing to label oneself a non-racist or a non-believer in Zeus. In this sense, Harris finds debating about the existence of God to be both absurd and ascientific yet still an inconvenient necessity when speaking in defense of reason and science.



He's an ignostic. As am I. Big deal. Dodgy

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07-11-2013, 04:56 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 04:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 04:36 PM)I and I Wrote:  http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/...th-atheism

This is a speech that I have seen online but could only find the transcript here.

At the beginning he attacks christian beliefs, no problem there but still, not evidence that one is an atheist.

He then goes on to say that he never considered himself an atheist, then he proceeds to propose that atheists not call themselves atheists or any other term associated with atheists. This of course would make them less visible and less known as an alternative from religious belief.

The guy is not an atheist, he also supports U.S. and Israeili oppression and mass murder. I can provide evidence for this as well if needed.

It is clear that he has no belief in any gods, he simply rejects the term 'atheist'.

"My concern with the use of the term “atheism” is both philosophical and strategic. I’m speaking from a somewhat unusual and perhaps paradoxical position because, while I am now one of the public voices of atheism, I never thought of myself as an atheist before being inducted to speak as one. I didn’t even use the term in The End of Faith, which remains my most substantial criticism of religion. And, as I argued briefly in Letter to a Christian Nation, I think that “atheist” is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don’t need a word for someone who rejects astrology. We simply do not call people “non-astrologers.” All we need are words like “reason” and “evidence” and “common sense” and “bullshit” to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion."

If he never considered himself an atheist then what does he consider himself?

In that speech he says he considers himself a secular jew. This term does not imply atheism at all. A secular jew could very well be a believer in judaism that doesn't believe that society should be ran by jewish law. Which is most likely where Sam Harris fits in.

Other evidence is his support for Israeli aggression and U.S. aggression.

btw, he was born in a jewish household so that begs the question, when did he stop believing in judaism? Does he ever explain this? Does he ever explain his problems with Judaism? he seems to attack other religions, just wondering when he got around to attacking judaism/
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07-11-2013, 05:05 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 04:52 PM)kim Wrote:  Sam Harris has expressed frustration with being labeled an atheist and often employs ignostic arguments criticizing the ambiguous and inconsistent definitions of "God". Harris finds the label and concept of atheism as extraneous as needing to label oneself a non-racist or a non-believer in Zeus. In this sense, Harris finds debating about the existence of God to be both absurd and ascientific yet still an inconvenient necessity when speaking in defense of reason and science.



He's an ignostic. As am I. Big deal. Dodgy

Agnostic towards main religions.

He has strange beliefs in mystical new age nonsense as well. If you want to lump new age mystical beliefs as atheism then that is stretching the term.

Agnostic is not the same as an atheist, and in that speech he states that he doesn't stand with Dawkins and Hitchens are clearly atheists.

He did say he was a secular jew. Expalin that one.
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07-11-2013, 05:05 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 04:56 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 04:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is clear that he has no belief in any gods, he simply rejects the term 'atheist'.

"My concern with the use of the term “atheism” is both philosophical and strategic. I’m speaking from a somewhat unusual and perhaps paradoxical position because, while I am now one of the public voices of atheism, I never thought of myself as an atheist before being inducted to speak as one. I didn’t even use the term in The End of Faith, which remains my most substantial criticism of religion. And, as I argued briefly in Letter to a Christian Nation, I think that “atheist” is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don’t need a word for someone who rejects astrology. We simply do not call people “non-astrologers.” All we need are words like “reason” and “evidence” and “common sense” and “bullshit” to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion."

If he never considered himself an atheist then what does he consider himself?

In that speech he says he considers himself a secular jew. This term does not imply atheism at all. A secular jew could very well be a believer in judaism that doesn't believe that society should be ran by jewish law. Which is most likely where Sam Harris fits in.

Other evidence is his support for Israeli aggression and U.S. aggression.

btw, he was born in a jewish household so that begs the question, when did he stop believing in judaism? Does he ever explain this? Does he ever explain his problems with Judaism? he seems to attack other religions, just wondering when he got around to attacking judaism/

He considers himself a scientist.

All the self-identified 'secular Jews' I know are atheists.

He doesn't think of himself as atheist because he rejects the need or use of that term. It's pretty simple, dude.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2013, 05:16 PM
Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 05:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 04:56 PM)I and I Wrote:  If he never considered himself an atheist then what does he consider himself?

In that speech he says he considers himself a secular jew. This term does not imply atheism at all. A secular jew could very well be a believer in judaism that doesn't believe that society should be ran by jewish law. Which is most likely where Sam Harris fits in.

Other evidence is his support for Israeli aggression and U.S. aggression.

btw, he was born in a jewish household so that begs the question, when did he stop believing in judaism? Does he ever explain this? Does he ever explain his problems with Judaism? he seems to attack other religions, just wondering when he got around to attacking judaism/

He considers himself a scientist.

All the self-identified 'secular Jews' I know are atheists.

He doesn't think of himself as atheist because he rejects the need or use of that term. It's pretty simple, dude.

So he rejects the need for the use of the term "atheist" and says he never considered himself one, and on top of that calls himself a secular Jew. Does he believe in a Jewish god?
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07-11-2013, 05:20 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 05:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  He considers himself a scientist.

All the self-identified 'secular Jews' I know are atheists.

He doesn't think of himself as atheist because he rejects the need or use of that term. It's pretty simple, dude.

So he rejects the need for the use of the term "atheist" and says he never considered himself one, and on top of that calls himself a secular Jew. Does he believe in a Jewish god?

He doesn't believe in any gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2013, 05:33 PM
Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 05:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  So he rejects the need for the use of the term "atheist" and says he never considered himself one, and on top of that calls himself a secular Jew. Does he believe in a Jewish god?

He doesn't believe in any gods.

So according to him he calls himself Jewish, and according to you he doesn't believe in any gods.
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07-11-2013, 05:44 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 05:33 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  He doesn't believe in any gods.

So according to him he calls himself Jewish, and according to you he doesn't believe in any gods.

Yes.

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07-11-2013, 06:03 PM
Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 05:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:33 PM)I and I Wrote:  So according to him he calls himself Jewish, and according to you he doesn't believe in any gods.

Yes.

So.... You believe one can be Jewish and not believe in any gods at the same time? Explain that one.
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07-11-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Are left wing politicians and liberals in love with Islam
(07-11-2013 06:03 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes.

So.... You believe one can be Jewish and not believe in any gods at the same time? Explain that one.

"Because Jewishness encompasses ethnic as well as religious components, the term "Jewish atheism" does not necessarily imply a contradiction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

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