Poll: Do you think scientologists should be considered atheists? ( please read my definition of atheism first! )
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i´m not sure
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Are scientologists actually Atheists?
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11-09-2010, 04:11 PM
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
There is a cycle that happens in religion. Many religions start off as break-away religions and others are started by individuals. At first they are considered to be cults. They start by attracting and catering to (and manipulating) poor and down-todden people's spiritual needs and weaknesses. As their 'flock' gets bigger some of these people will become financially better off and thus attract more financially better off converts. The cult will slowly earn the classification of a religion (accepted cult) and will cater to the spiritual needs and weaknesses of their richer members. This shift makes the church richer at the cost of the wants of the poorer members. Someone will get disillusioned with the religion and beak away to form a cult, taking some of the members along to the new religion(cult). This is why christianity has 33,000 denominations.
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13-09-2010, 03:06 AM
 
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
I think all religions are nothing more than cults that have achieved some level of membership that confirms on them a sort of pseudo-respectability. There's no practical difference between a religion and a cult. Joseph Smith founded a cult so he could have unlimited sex, and now it's "respectable". David Koresh founded a cult so he could have unlimited sex, but it's still considered a cult. What's the difference? Christianity was a cult. Judaism was a cult. Islam was a cult ... and they still are. Each replaced earlier religions that, in turn, replaced still earlier ones. Humans seem to have some sort of psychological need for them that might well be related to some evolutionary advantage associated with such beliefs. But individuals can free themselves of such bonds, when they begin to think rationally and engage in science, which is evidence-based and which we can show works in a practical, everyday sense - quite unlike religion, which is faith-based and cannot be shown to have any practical demonstration of its validity in everyday life.
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13-09-2010, 04:44 AM
 
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
(13-09-2010 03:06 AM)2buckchuck Wrote:  I think all religions are nothing more than cults that have achieved some level of membership that confirms on them a sort of pseudo-respectability. There's no practical difference between a religion and a cult. Joseph Smith founded a cult so he could have unlimited sex, and now it's "respectable". David Koresh founded a cult so he could have unlimited sex, but it's still considered a cult. What's the difference? Christianity was a cult. Judaism was a cult. Islam was a cult ... and they still are. Each replaced earlier religions that, in turn, replaced still earlier ones. Humans seem to have some sort of psychological need for them that might well be related to some evolutionary advantage associated with such beliefs. But individuals can free themselves of such bonds, when they begin to think rationally and engage in science, which is evidence-based and which we can show works in a practical, everyday sense - quite unlike religion, which is faith-based and cannot be shown to have any practical demonstration of its validity in everyday life.

I believe that cults (and religions) are formed out of mankind's desire to feel superior and to elevate their social status. When you think that you have "the answer", you (in your own mind) are a step above everyone else.

When you get a group of people together with a desire to feel superior, because they were downtrodden, or on the fringes of society, or whatever, all you really need is a catalyst. That catalyst takes the form of a charismatic leader who provides the answers. Once they have the answers, they're compelled to share them and prove their superiority.

It makes them feel better about themselves.

Of course, this is all conjecture, but I see it as the start of any religion or cult. Sometimes they are self-destructive (like those purple sneaker guys), and sometimes they are self-feeding (like those Christian guys)
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13-09-2010, 11:33 PM
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
I will change my vote on this one. Scientologist may not believe in a theistic god, but they do believe in the supernatural, which would go against the definition of atheism.
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13-09-2010, 11:34 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2010 11:55 PM by No J..)
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
A religion is a cult that has grown a substantial membership, attracted weathier members and become more accepted by society at large. Towns grow into cities and cults grow into religions. Same shit, bigger pile.
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14-09-2010, 02:52 AM
 
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
I suppose, strictly speaking, they are atheists, although I'm not sure how they feel about L. Ron Hubbard. Is he considered a "prophet" or a "demigod" by scientologists? I don't know a lot about scientology and see no good reason to start learning about it. All in all, I have to vote on the "not sure" side. There should be an option to vote for "don't care"!
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16-09-2010, 05:20 AM
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
(13-09-2010 11:33 PM)sosa Wrote:  I will change my vote on this one. Scientologist may not believe in a theistic god, but they do believe in the supernatural, which would go against the definition of atheism.

no it wouldn´t and that´s the point. Atheism, as i explained in the very first post, says nothing about the supernatural or anything else then the existence of a god or gods. It´s enough that theists always have to add (invent) something new to that definition, so we don´t need atheists to change it.

EMO, because homo is not gay enoughTongue
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16-09-2010, 05:32 AM
 
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
I am still not convinced that they science-fiction created by the founder has any effect at all on the participants in Scientology. Although they are being told they are being made ' clear ' and this does relate to the founder's fiction, I suspect the day-to-day they are quite unaware of the nonsense that Hubbard wrote and the effect on their attendance Scientology is merely the same as visiting a psychologist or psychiatrist for some talking therapy.

So far as I'm aware, the lower orders never involved in solving any sort of worship of any kind whilst the top members of the organisation merely in worship money.
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17-09-2010, 08:36 AM
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
(16-09-2010 05:20 AM)Germanatheist007 Wrote:  
(13-09-2010 11:33 PM)sosa Wrote:  I will change my vote on this one. Scientologist may not believe in a theistic god, but they do believe in the supernatural, which would go against the definition of atheism.

no it wouldn´t and that´s the point. Atheism, as i explained in the very first post, says nothing about the supernatural or anything else then the existence of a god or gods. It´s enough that theists always have to add (invent) something new to that definition, so we don´t need atheists to change it.

I disagree. Atheism is the lack of belief in the supernatural, and that includes the existence of deities. Deities are, by definition, supernatural.

How do we define deities? can deities be supernatural entities? if so scientology is not atheistic. A deity "is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers, often religiously referred to as a god." If you take this definition of what a deity is then Scientology cannot be atheistic.
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17-09-2010, 01:11 PM
RE: Are scientologists actually Atheists?
(17-09-2010 08:36 AM)sosa Wrote:  
(16-09-2010 05:20 AM)Germanatheist007 Wrote:  
(13-09-2010 11:33 PM)sosa Wrote:  I will change my vote on this one. Scientologist may not believe in a theistic god, but they do believe in the supernatural, which would go against the definition of atheism.

no it wouldn´t and that´s the point. Atheism, as i explained in the very first post, says nothing about the supernatural or anything else then the existence of a god or gods. It´s enough that theists always have to add (invent) something new to that definition, so we don´t need atheists to change it.

I disagree. Atheism is the lack of belief in the supernatural


NO IT IS NOOOOT...
it´s basically so easy it´s hard to understand why so few people understand that.

atheism is, like the name implies, nothing more than the rejection of theism and theism is defined as the belief that at least one deity exists.

So it really doesn´t say anything about the existence of the supernatural, only and i repeat that ONLY about the existence, or to be philosophically correct the probability of the existence, of deitis. nothing more and nothing less, the rest falls under the umbrella of sceptisicm

EMO, because homo is not gay enoughTongue
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