Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
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22-11-2016, 11:20 PM
Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
I've known people from my past that were evangelicals/funsamentalists and they had a really rough childhood/upbringing....and they won't seek out therapy or help....should us atheists try help them out by trying the socratic method-try to deconvert them? Or should we just leave them alone in their bliss and in the matrix???
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22-11-2016, 11:27 PM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
(22-11-2016 11:20 PM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've known people from my past that were evangelicals/fundamentalists and they had a really rough childhood/upbringing....and they won't seek out therapy or help....should us atheists try help them out by trying the socratic method-try to deconvert them? Or should we just leave them alone in their bliss and in the matrix???

I think religion is a lot like addiction in a sense.
Once a person has seen a little of what it looks like from the other side, they'll have to really want it to get away from it.
No amount of forced conversion or coaxing will get them "sober".
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23-11-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
(22-11-2016 11:27 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(22-11-2016 11:20 PM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've known people from my past that were evangelicals/fundamentalists and they had a really rough childhood/upbringing....and they won't seek out therapy or help....should us atheists try help them out by trying the socratic method-try to deconvert them? Or should we just leave them alone in their bliss and in the matrix???

I think religion is a lot like addiction in a sense.
Once a person has seen a little of what it looks like from the other side, they'll have to really want it to get away from it.
No amount of forced conversion or coaxing will get them "sober".

If religion is an addiction Iboga should help with it.
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23-11-2016, 03:02 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
There are probably some people for who belief in hell and heaven is necessary for them to behave decently, given the absence of any other moral framework. These few people, together with those mentioned in the op, do not however justify leaving religion alone, because of all the harm it causes which far outweighs the benefits IMO.
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23-11-2016, 03:37 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
(22-11-2016 11:20 PM)jason197754 Wrote:  I've known people from my past that were evangelicals/funsamentalists and they had a really rough childhood/upbringing....and they won't seek out therapy or help....should us atheists try help them out by trying the socratic method-try to deconvert them? Or should we just leave them alone in their bliss and in the matrix???

In my experience this matrix isn't bliss. My self-esteem was severely harmed by growing up being taught that I was a sinner by nature, fundamentally bad, deserving of Hell and needing mercy and saving from god.
Christianity, at least the fundamental kind, isn't all pretty angels and shiny Heaven, and it can devastate a person who's had a rough upbringing even more, tearing away their believe in themselves rather than building it up.
I think what's important is to show religious people that they are good, not bad, and deserving of love, not deserving of punishment. And showing them that they can leave this fundamentalist religion without the sky raining fire on their heads.
They need help being build up, rather than being left in a religion that tears them down.
In case of people with psychological problems, secular therapy is definitely an important part of healing. They not only need it for the issues they were dealing with already, they also need the support to deal with the trauma that often follows giving up religion. So I think reminding people of the option of therapy, and that therapy isn't stigmatised anymore and doesn't mean they are mentally disturbed, is just as important as showing them that you can be an atheist without being a bad or miserable person. The two should go hand in hand.
Finding a bit of believe in my own value as a human was core in me finding the strength to break with religion and the ability to see I deserved love, not mercy. So I believe supporting this is the way to give people real bliss, not leaving them in the matrix of religion.

"I believe that while not all people are essentially good, most are trying" - Adam Savage
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23-11-2016, 05:25 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
If you find someone who is genuinely improved by religion - you've found one seriously fucked up human being.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-11-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
I don't want religious people trying to convert me. Therefore I don't try to deconvert religious people. I'd steer a messed up person toward therapy or other services, if they seemed to need help and I thought they'd be receptive to the suggestion.
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23-11-2016, 07:21 AM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2016 07:31 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
If you give a person who's messed up the belief that they're a sinner by nature and unworthy of someone's love unless they believe in them, is that actually helping? How could that be a healthy mindset to have? How is it a healthy mindset that you need to believe in x, y, z, or else there's no hope for you?
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23-11-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
I believe a lot of people need or at least benefit greatly from the moral guidelines provided by their religion. That doesn't mean the good outweighs the bad, however. And even if the good does outweigh the bad that doesn't make it any less false.
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23-11-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: Are some people so messed up that they need religion?
The albino monk played by Paul Bettany in "The Duh Vinci Code" is an example of someone who uses religion to restrain themselves from worse behaviour.
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