Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
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17-05-2015, 01:59 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 02:05 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 01:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  All sorts of people were sacrificed, including prisoners of wars, and criminals.

But you think that when they sacrificed those you see as "the most innocent" among them, that they obviously saw that they were the "the most innocent"? I mean there innocence is quite obvious to you, so it should have been for them as well?

No. Criminals and prisoners were executed, not "sacrificed". Nice to see you have no clue what this is even all about. You are an expert in nothing (obviously). Anything you assert requires substantiation with historical references.

If it's not only about Christians then criminals could be sacrificed, at least according to this book. Or maybe sacrificing criminals was form of execution, not sacrifice like in the case of someone innocent.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. Criminals and prisoners were executed, not "sacrificed". Nice to see you have no clue what this is even all about. You are an expert in nothing (obviously). Anything you assert requires substantiation with historical references.

" Ritual sacrifices played a vital role in the Mayan culture....These sacrifices took place during elaborate ceremonies and have been depicted in ancient Mayan ceramics, sculptures, and murals. Slaves, criminals, bastards, orphans and children made up the bulk of the victims."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp363-ss13/...sacrifice/

"Some were members of the Aztec community but they believe that most were prisoners of war. Instead of killing their enemies in battle, they would sometimes capture them and take them back to the capital to be offered up to the gods."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp264-ss13/...sacrifice/

"In Ancient Hawaii, a luakini temple, or luakini heiau, was a Native Hawaiian sacred place where human and animal blood sacrifices were offered. Kauwa, the outcast or slave class, were often used as human sacrifices at the luakini heiau. They are believed to have been war captives, or the descendants of war captives. They were not the only sacrifices; law-breakers of all castes or defeated political opponents were also acceptable as victims"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice
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17-05-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 01:59 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  If it's not only about Christians then criminals could be sacrificed, at least according to this book. Or maybe sacrificing criminals was form of execution, not sacrifice like in the case of someone innocent.

"A criminal was likely sacrificed to the god he had offended in repayment for whatever was upset." Sounds more like a transfer of custody than a sacrifice to me.

#sigh
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17-05-2015, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 02:28 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 01:59 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  If it's not only about Christians then criminals could be sacrificed, at least according to this book. Or maybe sacrificing criminals was form of execution, not sacrifice like in the case of someone innocent.

"A criminal was likely sacrificed to the god he had offended in repayment for whatever was upset." Sounds more like a transfer of custody than a sacrifice to me.

It's certainly possible, but word sacrifice is still used, though we may simply put different meaning on this specific word.

Sacrifice in context of this thread is only about innocent victims? Or criminals could be sacrificed, only example that I provided did not fit the criteria?

Edit: I also found some tiny bit of info about Mayans sacrifices.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
Just out of curiosity... why does it matter whether there is 'originality' in any given doctrine / dogma / creed?

Our body of knowledge has grown / evolved. Is there a problem with Christianity / Paulanity saying "Yeah, well, these bits from earlier thinking / myths are OK but we're gonna pinch these other bits from over there."

As Newton said about science... "... standing on the shoulders of giants".

As St Anselm said about religion... "... probing the anus of midgets".

Wink

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17-05-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. Criminals and prisoners were executed, not "sacrificed". Nice to see you have no clue what this is even all about. You are an expert in nothing (obviously). Anything you assert requires substantiation with historical references.

" Ritual sacrifices played a vital role in the Mayan culture....These sacrifices took place during elaborate ceremonies and have been depicted in ancient Mayan ceramics, sculptures, and murals. Slaves, criminals, bastards, orphans and children made up the bulk of the victims."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp363-ss13/...sacrifice/

"Some were members of the Aztec community but they believe that most were prisoners of war. Instead of killing their enemies in battle, they would sometimes capture them and take them back to the capital to be offered up to the gods."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp264-ss13/...sacrifice/

"In Ancient Hawaii, a luakini temple, or luakini heiau, was a Native Hawaiian sacred place where human and animal blood sacrifices were offered. Kauwa, the outcast or slave class, were often used as human sacrifices at the luakini heiau. They are believed to have been war captives, or the descendants of war captives. They were not the only sacrifices; law-breakers of all castes or defeated political opponents were also acceptable as victims"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice

Jesus Fucking Christ Tomatillo. The distinction you are trying to make between The Sacrifice that is The Word and ritual pagan human sacrifice is wrong headed and misplaced and doomed to fail. Could we maybe take this to a thread of its own? I mean it's your call and I'll keep playing here if you'd rather. But the SNR is getting pretty low wrt the OP.

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17-05-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus Fucking Christ Tomatillo. The distinction you are trying to make between The Sacrifice that is The Word and ritual pagan human sacrifice is wrong headed and misplaced and doomed to fail. Could we maybe take this to a thread of its own? I mean it's your call and I'll keep playing here if you'd rather. But the SNR is getting pretty low wrt the OP.

I'm just curious about your response to this:

"But you think that when they sacrificed those you see as "the most innocent" among them, that they obviously saw that they were the "the most innocent"? I mean there innocence is quite obvious to you, so it should have been for them as well?"

I don't see much of a point in starting a new thread, since it would likely just be me and you going back forth on this. But I'm curious about the perception of yours of "the most innocent". This aspect seems obvious to you, and I'm curious as to why you believe it was obvious to those who unlike yourself, murdered them?

Why do you think it would have been obvious to them?
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17-05-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Just out of curiosity... why does it matter whether there is 'originality' in any given doctrine / dogma / creed?

Our body of knowledge has grown / evolved. Is there a problem with Christianity / Paulanity saying "Yeah, well, these bits from earlier thinking / myths are OK but we're gonna pinch these other bits from over there."

As Newton said about science... "... standing on the shoulders of giants".

As St Anselm said about religion... "... probing the anus of midgets".

Wink

It don't matter I think. However if one want to show that Christianity is nothing more than bunch of stolen ideas then it does matter.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 04:02 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. Criminals and prisoners were executed, not "sacrificed". Nice to see you have no clue what this is even all about. You are an expert in nothing (obviously). Anything you assert requires substantiation with historical references.

" Ritual sacrifices played a vital role in the Mayan culture....These sacrifices took place during elaborate ceremonies and have been depicted in ancient Mayan ceramics, sculptures, and murals. Slaves, criminals, bastards, orphans and children made up the bulk of the victims."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp363-ss13/...sacrifice/

"Some were members of the Aztec community but they believe that most were prisoners of war. Instead of killing their enemies in battle, they would sometimes capture them and take them back to the capital to be offered up to the gods."

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp264-ss13/...sacrifice/

"In Ancient Hawaii, a luakini temple, or luakini heiau, was a Native Hawaiian sacred place where human and animal blood sacrifices were offered. Kauwa, the outcast or slave class, were often used as human sacrifices at the luakini heiau. They are believed to have been war captives, or the descendants of war captives. They were not the only sacrifices; law-breakers of all castes or defeated political opponents were also acceptable as victims"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice

Nice try. Now all you have to do is provide just as many examples of "guilty" children, guilty babies, and guilty "first borns", in the pre Judeo-Christian era, as you asserted, (with no references and no examples). Take your time.

Come to think of it, since you're a fan boi of Girard, and are so intimately familiar with his work, how about provide those 5 examples from his work. He did write one of the best most comprehensive summations "we" (cough cough) have on the subject, there must be many many there ... right ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-05-2015, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 03:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Just out of curiosity... why does it matter whether there is 'originality' in any given doctrine / dogma / creed?

Our body of knowledge has grown / evolved. Is there a problem with Christianity / Paulanity saying "Yeah, well, these bits from earlier thinking / myths are OK but we're gonna pinch these other bits from over there."

As Newton said about science... "... standing on the shoulders of giants".

As St Anselm said about religion... "... probing the anus of midgets".

Wink

I thought it might provide an impetus for exploring exactly the topics that have been raised. I have stood on the shoulders of giants and probed the anus of midgets and they both smell like ass.

#sigh
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