Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
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17-05-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:59 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 02:45 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Interesting. And what's was their stance about paintings in churches?

Same thing. No paintings or drawings, either. (No killing or bombing, though.) No stained glass artwork, no paintings, no engravings, and so on.

As a matter of fact, many insisted the standard painting of Jesus was actually Simon the Sorcerer.

Even more interesting. Faith without all that splendour associated with the churches. Kind of PR move or they simply were doing that cause Bible?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 10:29 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And Mark Dreher and ego® and many others here also have their unique interpretation of Christianity. My own interpretation of Christianity is that I am my own personal Jesus, my own personal Lord and Savior. So saith The Word. It says so right there in the text. But that is not a concept uniquely attributable to Christianity, it is not even accepted by most (but not all) variations of Christianity. Hell it is not even a concept uniquely attributable to Bob. As far as I can tell Girard's position is provocative and speculative but not Christian doctrine. So it ain't no more uniquely attributable to Christianity than Bob's interpretation.

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Jesus Christ Chas. Yes yes I know I'm not Jesus I'm Bob. But they don't fucking know that unless you tell them. You're a horrible wingman. Go away and send JohnnyC in. Tongue

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17-05-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 02:36 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 02:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Just out of curiosity... why does it matter whether there is 'originality' in any given doctrine / dogma / creed?

Our body of knowledge has grown / evolved. Is there a problem with Christianity / Paulanity saying "Yeah, well, these bits from earlier thinking / myths are OK but we're gonna pinch these other bits from over there."

As Newton said about science... "... standing on the shoulders of giants".

As St Anselm said about religion... "... probing the anus of midgets".

Wink

It don't matter I think. However if one want to show that Christianity is nothing more than bunch of stolen ideas then it does matter.

Hmmm. One could say the same for Philosophy... building on the body of knowledge.

Is it the 'stolen' bit that is the problem?

Consider

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17-05-2015, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 03:41 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  ...
Even more interesting. Faith without all that splendour associated with the churches. Kind of PR move or they simply were doing that cause Bible?

Absolutely a PR move to boost sales.

Discussed at the Council of (damn! I forgot which one) and there was much opposition because of the idolatry clause.

"It's selling out, man". "We'll lose our fan-base if we go all commercial" etc.

Much like the music industry ... imagine Nirvana morphing into a boy band?

The catholics, of course, had little difficulty morphing into bands of boys.

Dodgy

EDIT: 2nd Nicaea was the attempt to clarify the rules and stop the destruction of icons:
Quote:Significant periods of iconoclasm (deliberate destruction of icons) have occurred in the history of the Church, the first major outbreak being the Byzantine iconoclasm (730-787), motivated by a strictly literal interpretation of the second commandment and interaction with Muslims who have a very strict teachings against the creation of images. Iconoclasm was officially condemned by the Western and Eastern Churches at the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD (the Western Church was not represented, but approved the decrees later).

This decision was based on the arguments including that the biblical commandment forbidding images of God was because no-one had seen God. But, by the Incarnation of Jesus, who is God incarnate in visible matter, humankind has now seen God. It was therefore argued that they were not depicting the invisible God, but God as He appeared in the flesh.

The Libri Carolini are a response prepared in the court of Charlemagne, when under the mistaken impression that the Nicea Council had approved the worship as opposed to the veneration of images.
See also: Libri Carolini

It was a later council meeting when they discussed posters, football shirts, baseball hats, cross-shaped key fobs etc.

Big Grin

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17-05-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 02:36 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It don't matter I think. However if one want to show that Christianity is nothing more than bunch of stolen ideas then it does matter.

Hmmm. One could say the same for Philosophy... building on the body of knowledge.

Is it the 'stolen' bit that is the problem?

Consider

Well, I heard many things about Philosophy but it's about knowledge, and there is no shame in incorporating knowledge of others in our way of thinking. Religion on the other hand is about gaining power over fellow humans, about distracting them from beauty of this world and giving them false hope, so anything usefull that one religion steal from other will made it more convincing, which I think is not a good thing.

Fact that Christianity is amalgam of various ideas isn't problem, or it would not be a problem if this stolen ideas wouldn't help this religion to thrive.

Also is simply kinda interesting to see from what consist - another - one true religion.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 03:39 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Is it the 'stolen' bit that is the problem?

It's not plagiarism as long you attribute the source. It's a matter of preserving the integrity and provenance of the concept for fuck's sake.

(17-05-2015 03:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 02:36 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It don't matter I think. However if one want to show that Christianity is nothing more than bunch of stolen ideas then it does matter.

Hmmm. One could say the same for Philosophy... building on the body of knowledge.

The distinction between philosophy and religion is an interesting one worth pursuing. For most of Western Philosophy the two were inextricably intertwined. I think the final severing of the umbilical cord came with the nihilists and the pussy existentialists are just trying to reestablish that connection or at least apply some salve to the wound. ... But that's just me.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Even more interesting. Faith without all that splendour associated with the churches. Kind of PR move or they simply were doing that cause Bible?

They claimed Bible but I agree with DLJ that it was more PR. They were similar to Adventists in that they believed not in Hell but extinction, no birthdays, no Christmas or Easter (again, 'cos Bible! Them are pagan days!), and so on.

Ironically they helped me veer toward atheism because I had to study all those verses that weren't mainstream Christianity and especially different from my Catholic childhood. Smile
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17-05-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 03:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Is it the 'stolen' bit that is the problem?

It's not plagiarism as long you attribute the source. It's a matter of preserving the integrity and provenance of the concept for fuck's sake.

(17-05-2015 03:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Hmmm. One could say the same for Philosophy... building on the body of knowledge.

The distinction between philosophy and religion is an interesting one worth pursuing. For most of Western Philosophy the two were inextricably intertwined. I think the final severing of the umbilical cord came with the nihilists and the pussy existentialists are just trying to reestablish that connection or at least apply some salve to the wound. ... But that's just me.

Not just you.

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17-05-2015, 03:48 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:35 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 03:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Even more interesting. Faith without all that splendour associated with the churches. Kind of PR move or they simply were doing that cause Bible?

They claimed Bible but I agree with DLJ that it was more PR. They were similar to Adventists in that they believed not in Hell but extinction, no birthdays, no Christmas or Easter (again, 'cos Bible! Them are pagan days!), and so on.

Ironically they helped me veer toward atheism because I had to study all those verses that weren't mainstream Christianity and especially different from my Catholic childhood. Smile

So only cold, joyless faith?

As for helping with atheism it appear that religion can leed to something good.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 03:48 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  So only cold, joyless faith?

As for helping with atheism it appear that religion can leed to something good.

Correction:

As for helping with atheism it appears that criticism of religion can lead to something good.

Smile

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