Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
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15-05-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
I don't think any other religions believe in predestination.

There are belief systems that do... but not religions.

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15-05-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
When I as in my deconversion stage, I did a lot of research and the idea of bringing something utterly unique or original just could not be found.

They were lifted and often peiced together through much older myths, beliefs, and stories.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-05-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't think any other religions believe in predestination.

There are belief systems that do... but not religions.

Googling it looks the Etruscan religion had a similar concept.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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15-05-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 08:56 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 06:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Think I've asked this of Fullerene before and he said "No." if memory serves.

Golden Rule? No. Rising from the dead? No. Qualified salvation? No. So now I'm opening it up to the forum. Is there any concept which can be uniquely attributed to Christianity? What about transubstantiation? Haven't done the research but I doubt it.

Is there anything unique about Christianity or is it just a selective aggregation and amalgamation of previously proposed concepts? A metaphysical Drudge Report.

Yes, a human sacrifice in which the victim is declared as innocent, and the mob that murders him is declared as guilty. - for further reading see Rene Girard's Violence and the Sacred

Ummm... I think not. I've read that book. I think you have it precisely backwards. He traces the origins of religion and mob violence back and says mob violence is the origin of religion. He wrote another book called "Deceit, Desire, and the Novel" in which he says the human tendency to scapegoat those who are "different," and experience a transcendant "oneness" (the mob putting the scapegoat to death) is what religion originated from. Anyway, it's certainly not unique to Christianity.

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15-05-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Quote:es, a human sacrifice in which the victim is declared as innocent, and the mob that murders him is declared as guilty. - for further reading see Rene Girard's Violence and the Sacred

Ummm... I think not. I've read that book. I think you have it precisely backwards. Anyway, it's certainly not unique to Christianity.


Uhm..and I think you haven't really read the book:

"What I have called “bad sacrifice” is the kind of sacrificial religion that prevailed before Christ. It originates because mimetic rivalry threatens the very survival of a community. But through a spontaneous process that also involves mimesis, the community unites against a victim in an act of spontaneous killing. This act unites rivals and restores peace and leaves a powerful impression that results in the establishment of sacrificial religion.

But in this kind of religion, the community is regarded as innocent and the victim is guilty. Even after the victim has been “deified,” he is still a criminal in the eyes of the community" _Rene Girard
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15-05-2015, 09:48 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2015 09:54 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 09:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ummm... I think not. I've read that book. I think you have it precisely backwards. Anyway, it's certainly not unique to Christianity.


Uhm..and I think you haven't really read the book:

"What I have called “bad sacrifice” is the kind of sacrificial religion that prevailed before Christ. It originates because mimetic rivalry threatens the very survival of a community. But through a spontaneous process that also involves mimesis, the community unites against a victim in an act of spontaneous killing. This act unites rivals and restores peace and leaves a powerful impression that results in the establishment of sacrificial religion.

But in this kind of religion, the community is regarded as innocent and the victim is guilty. Even after the victim has been “deified,” he is still a criminal in the eyes of the community" _Rene Girard

Oh I read the books. He's very biased, and I don't care what his *opinion* of what "kind" of sacrifice it is. (He is a Christian, after all). The fact is an innocent scapegoat (ie CHILDREN ... including the CHILDREN in Isreal that were sacrificed in the Valley of Gehinon outside Jerusalem ... yes they practiced child-sacrifice), taking on the guilt of the (gulity) mob and appeasing the gods by the sacrifice of an innocent is in NO WAY unique to Christianity. The restoration of "universal cosmic order" post-sacrifice of/to the Christian god is in NO WAY different, no matter what he (or you) claim. It's essentially what "salvation" is all about : "Jesus (a god) taking on *corrupt* human nature (the "incarnation") to make the sacrifice acceptable. Please.

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15-05-2015, 09:55 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2015 09:59 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:48 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Uhm..and I think you haven't really read the book:

"What I have called “bad sacrifice” is the kind of sacrificial religion that prevailed before Christ. It originates because mimetic rivalry threatens the very survival of a community. But through a spontaneous process that also involves mimesis, the community unites against a victim in an act of spontaneous killing. This act unites rivals and restores peace and leaves a powerful impression that results in the establishment of sacrificial religion.

But in this kind of religion, the community is regarded as innocent and the victim is guilty. Even after the victim has been “deified,” he is still a criminal in the eyes of the community" _Rene Girard

Oh I read the books. He's very biased, and I don't care what his *opinion* of what "kind" of sacrifice it is. (He is a Christian, after all). The fact is an innocent scapegoat (ie CHILDREN ... including the CHILDREN in Isreal that were sacrificed in the Valley of Gehinon outside Jerusalem ... yes they practiced child-sacrifice, taking on the guilt of the (gulity) mob and appeasing the gods by the sacrifice of an innocent is in NO WAY unique to Christianity. The restoration of "universal cosmic order" post-sacrifice of the Christian god is in NO WAY different, no matter what he (or you) claim. It's essentially what "salvation" is all about.

I'm not sure what you're rambling on about here. Earlier you wanted to argue that he didn't hold this view, now recognizing that he did, you want to backtrack and declare that his biases got in the way.

You haven't falsified his argument, which is pretty easy to do. All you have to do is find similar pre-Judeo-Christian stories of human sacrifice, in which negate his claims about them, where the roles of innocent and guilt were reversed as in the Christian story.
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15-05-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 09:48 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh I read the books. He's very biased, and I don't care what his *opinion* of what "kind" of sacrifice it is. (He is a Christian, after all). The fact is an innocent scapegoat (ie CHILDREN ... including the CHILDREN in Isreal that were sacrificed in the Valley of Gehinon outside Jerusalem ... yes they practiced child-sacrifice, taking on the guilt of the (gulity) mob and appeasing the gods by the sacrifice of an innocent is in NO WAY unique to Christianity. The restoration of "universal cosmic order" post-sacrifice of the Christian god is in NO WAY different, no matter what he (or you) claim. It's essentially what "salvation" is all about.

I'm not sure what you're rambling on about here. Earlier you wanted to argue that he didn't hold this view, now recognizing that he did, you want to backtrack and declare that his biases got in the way.

You haven't falsified his argument, which is pretty easy to do. All you have to do is find similar pre-Judeo-Christian stories of human sacrifice, in which negate his claims about them, where the roles of innocent and guilt were reversed as in the Christian story.

Innocents were often sacrificed - that was kind of the point.

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15-05-2015, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2015 10:29 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 09:48 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh I read the books. He's very biased, and I don't care what his *opinion* of what "kind" of sacrifice it is. (He is a Christian, after all). The fact is an innocent scapegoat (ie CHILDREN ... including the CHILDREN in Isreal that were sacrificed in the Valley of Gehinon outside Jerusalem ... yes they practiced child-sacrifice, taking on the guilt of the (gulity) mob and appeasing the gods by the sacrifice of an innocent is in NO WAY unique to Christianity. The restoration of "universal cosmic order" post-sacrifice of the Christian god is in NO WAY different, no matter what he (or you) claim. It's essentially what "salvation" is all about.

I'm not sure what you're rambling on about here. Earlier you wanted to argue that he didn't hold this view, now recognizing that he did, you want to backtrack and declare that his biases got in the way.

You haven't falsified his argument, which is pretty easy to do. All you have to do is find similar pre-Judeo-Christian stories of human sacrifice, in which negate his claims about them, where the roles of innocent and guilt were reversed as in the Christian story.

Nope. YOU presented his book as an example of something unique in Christianity, (apparently disingenuosly ... as you NOW claim it's easy to falsify), I'm saying you're BOTH wrong, AND not only that, you misinterpreted him. So you get caught and you have to start with the "rambling" shit. Anyone reading this can see who is doing what. The POINT is, there IS NOTHING unique in Christianity, or the cults it developed from. There'a nothing really "reversed" in the Christian story. He tried to present it as such. In fact I don't think he knew *what* he was trying to say. Apparently he never really read the gospels.

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15-05-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(15-05-2015 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't think any other religions believe in predestination.

There are belief systems that do... but not religions.

It seems some other ancient religions seemed to have points of specifically marking against it, which would be interesting as a choice to point out if others hadn't already believed it in some degrees. But likely small sects of movements happened with it like the cartoon tigers friend.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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