Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
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17-05-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(16-05-2015 02:56 PM)Esquilax Wrote:  But that's also true of the Jesus story; the ones actually doing the scapegoating had him accused of blasphemy.

Exactly, those that killed him didn't seem him as innocent. If they were the writers here, the narrative would have followed along the same lines as traditional scapegoat mythologies. In which their culpability and the victims innocence is concealed.

But they were not the ones writing the story. The narrative is from the perspectives of the victims in this sense, rather than the victimizers. They recognized Jesus innocence, the way in which blacks would have recognized the innocence of the lynch mob victims, where for whites this would have been concealed.

As a result the story is bit different than traditional scapegoat mythologies, in which the lie these former practices were built on, is exposed in the christian myth, where the innocent of the victims is declared, and the guilt is revealed.
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17-05-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
I would also say that the Norse mythology have some things that I guess would seem to be related to the rapture (Though I haven't studied either to be too sure)
But in essence in Norse mythology only people who die in battle will be collected by the Valkyries for Odin and go to Valhal where they will live until Ragnarok where they are called to battle. Anyone how dies of old age or from sickness go to Hel instead.

Interestingly it is therefore said that you shouldn't trust Odin when he promising victory. For he wants the best warriors to go to his hall.
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17-05-2015, 06:52 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 07:33 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 06:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 02:56 PM)Esquilax Wrote:  But that's also true of the Jesus story; the ones actually doing the scapegoating had him accused of blasphemy.

Exactly, those that killed him didn't seem him as innocent. If they were the writers here, the narrative would have followed along the same lines as traditional scapegoat mythologies. In which their culpability and the victims innocence is concealed.

But they were not the ones writing the story. The narrative is from the perspectives of the victims in this sense, rather than the victimizers. They recognized Jesus innocence, the way in which blacks would have recognized the innocence of the lynch mob victims, where for whites this would have been concealed.

As a result the story is bit different than traditional scapegoat mythologies, in which the lie these former practices were built on, is exposed in the christian myth, where the innocent of the victims is declared, and the guilt is revealed.

There is absolutely nowhere anywhere in the myth of the passion and death, (and yes it was a total myth), that it says anything at all about what you are attempting to make it say. In fact the Romans put him to death, and IN THE MYTH, the Roman Pilate, (Luke 23:4) says "I see no basis for a charge in this man" ... that makes him INNOCENT. Even the gospels say that. (You really should take a class in your cult some day). If you try to say the Jews incorrectly said he was "guilty" then you are also wrong, as they brought him to the Romans (according to the myth) for a legitimate reason, NOT a false reason.

In fact, there was no "scapegoating" ... guilty or innocent. There was no trial. In Roman occupied Jerusalem, in the Pax Romana, troublemakers were summarily executed with no trial. No Galilean peasant ever was brought into the presence of Roman aristocrats, and there is no record of it ever happening. The Sanhedrin was never once in all of Jewish history called into session on Passover weekend. It never happened. None of it. So your entire pile of horseshit nonsense is made-up.

The REASON the Gospel of John changes the day (from the other gospels) for the death of Jesus, is that he wanted to portray Jesus (as any real scholar knows) as the INNOCENT "Paschal Lamb". The very same concept that fits in perfectly and UNCHANGED with all of Jewish tradition.. It the reason they wrote it that way. You're full of shit, Tomasia, and so is Girard. Christians think he was innocent. The Jews who wanted him (in the myth) gotten rid of, did not in any way think of him as a "scapegoat". He was simply a criminal to them. You and Girard are dishonestly attempting to make a distinction that has no basis.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the same people who repeated over and over "For He sent his only begotten Son" seriously actually thought that god was guilty of something ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-05-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "I see no basis for a charge in this man" ... that makes him INNOCENT. Even the gospels say that.


The REASON the Gospel of John changes the day (from the other gospels) for the death of Jesus, is that he wanted to portray Jesus (as any real scholar knows) as the INNOCENT "Paschal Lamb". [u]

lol, you're just reiterating that fact that in the Christian myth the one being sacrificed is declared as innocent, Find me one pre-judeo Christian myth that did the same thing, that declared the innocence of the victim, and places the guilt on the mob.

There's none.

Since I've asked for this several times, and no one has been able to do this. I'm assuming you all came up empty handed. Big surprise.
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17-05-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 07:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "I see no basis for a charge in this man" ... that makes him INNOCENT. Even the gospels say that.


The REASON the Gospel of John changes the day (from the other gospels) for the death of Jesus, is that he wanted to portray Jesus (as any real scholar knows) as the INNOCENT "Paschal Lamb". [u]

lol, you're just reiterating that fact that in the Christian myth the one being sacrificed is declared as innocent, Find me one pre-judeo Christian myth that did the same thing, that declared the innocence of the victim, and places the guilt on the mob.

There's none.

Since I've asked for this several times, and no one has been able to do this. I'm assuming you all came up empty handed. Big surprise.

Shouldn't you be at church Tongue lol The Aztecs, for example, made numerous sacrifices because they believed they owed their gods a blood-debt (what does a blood-debt remind you of--maybe Jesus dying for our sins?). They sacrificed innocent animals and people all the time to their gods to stop bad things from happening to them. The fact that religions all over the world (and in all different times and places have both differences and similarities in them) should tell you that they are man-made.
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17-05-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 07:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  The Aztecs, for example, made numerous sacrifices because they believed they owed their gods a blood-debt (what does a blood-debt remind you of--maybe Jesus dying for our sins?).

Of course it reminds me of Jesus's death And these similarities are interesting. Why are they so replete in human history? What purpose did they serve? What problem were they trying to solve? What practical and functional purposes did they fulfill?

The psychological component here is scapegoating, in which these myths and narratives are built upon. A more ritualized and organized form of lynching.

Quote:They sacrificed innocent animals and people all the time to their gods to stop bad things from happening to them.

Their innocence is a truth we recognize, but for which the perpetrators didn't. The one who scapegoats doesn't see his victim as innocent. He's deluded from seeing that. The victim warrants the violence and anger leveled upon him. Since we're not the one's scapegoating, or a members of some scapegoating community, and our allegiances are almost always with the victims, we can see what the one/s doing the scapegoating cannot see, the innocence of the victim, the guilt of his murders.

The uniqueness of the Gospel is a product of it being from the perspective of the victims, or those whose sympathy lay with him, and not with those who murdered him. Allowing them to see what traditional sacrifice myths have never seen. Revealing the very aspect hidden in their mythologies.
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17-05-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 07:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's none.

Since I've asked for this several times, and no one has been able to do this. I'm assuming you all came up empty handed. Big surprise.

Fool.
EVERY SINGLE child sacrifice in the history of Homo sapiens was an example, (as was repeatedly pointed out to you above).
Are you on drugs or just a complete idiot ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-05-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 08:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Fool.
EVERY SINGLE child sacrifice in the history of Homo sapiens was an example, (as was repeatedly pointed out to you above).
Are you on drugs or just a complete idiot ?

So you're saying that those committing the child sacrifice declared the child was innocent? Or are you stating the obvious fact, that you recognize that the child is innocent?
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17-05-2015, 08:30 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 08:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 07:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  The Aztecs, for example, made numerous sacrifices because they believed they owed their gods a blood-debt (what does a blood-debt remind you of--maybe Jesus dying for our sins?).

Of course it reminds me of Jesus's death And these similarities are interesting. Why are they so replete in human history? What purpose did they serve? What problem were they trying to solve? What practical and functional purposes did they fulfill?

The psychological component here is scapegoating, in which these myths and narratives are built upon. A more ritualized and organized form of lynching.

Quote:They sacrificed innocent animals and people all the time to their gods to stop bad things from happening to them.

Their innocence is a truth we recognize, but for which the perpetrators didn't. The one who scapegoats doesn't see his victim as innocent. He's deluded from seeing that. The victim warrants the violence and anger leveled upon him. Since we're not the one's scapegoating, or a members of some scapegoating community, and our allegiances are almost always with the victims, we can see what the one/s doing the scapegoating cannot see, the innocence of the victim, the guilt of his murders.

The uniqueness of the Gospel is a product of it being from the perspective of the victims, or those whose sympathy lay with him, and not with those who murdered him. Allowing them to see what traditional sacrifice myths have never seen. Revealing the very aspect hidden in their mythologies.

But all religions are unique in some way. How do you know you are practicing the right religion if you are using "uniqueness" as a guide? Each and every individual religion that there is/ever was/ever will be will always have something that makes them unique. If religions didn't have unique aspects to them-everyone would be practicing the same thing. The reason for the differences is that it is cultural. One reason for the similarities is because many cultures and societies took aspects of various neighboring religions that they liked and tweaked them to fit into their own culture and beliefs.
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17-05-2015, 08:38 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 09:00 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 08:25 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 08:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Fool.
EVERY SINGLE child sacrifice in the history of Homo sapiens was an example, (as was repeatedly pointed out to you above).
Are you on drugs or just a complete idiot ?

So you're saying that those committing the child sacrifice declared the child was innocent? Or are you stating the obvious fact, that you recognize that the child is innocent?

You need help. Badly. Since you are totally ignorant, the answer is "Yes, the mob knew and declared them as innocent".
"Because of this offense for which Israel is corporately responsible, Jeremiah predicts disaster (7:32-34 and 19:1-3), 6-15). If only the people would repent, disaster could be thwarted (Jeremiah 18:5-11). But the Israelites were a "stiff-necked" people who would not listen to God's words (Jer. 9:15; see also 18:12; cf 18:5-11). They had forsaken their God to serve other gods even to the extent that they would sacrifice their own children spilling "the blood of the innocent" (Jer. 19:4). Mannaseh's grandson Josiah had tried to bring about reformation among the Israelites.

Take a class someday. Please.

https://books.google.com/books?id=PASL_g...st&f=false

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scapegoat

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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