Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
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17-05-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 06:38 AM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  I would also say that the Norse mythology have some things that I guess would seem to be related to the rapture (Though I haven't studied either to be too sure)
But in essence in Norse mythology only people who die in battle will be collected by the Valkyries for Odin and go to Valhal where they will live until Ragnarok where they are called to battle. Anyone how dies of old age or from sickness go to Hel instead.

Interestingly it is therefore said that you shouldn't trust Odin when he promising victory. For he wants the best warriors to go to his hall.

If one takes this definition of rapture -
Quote:In Christian eschatology the rapture refers to the belief that either before, or simultaneously with, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to earth, believers who have died will be raised and believers who are still alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (the resurrected dead believers) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air
then I wouldn't say that Odin Valkyries are similar to it. Dying in battle is mainly about glory and maybe says something about duty, and rapture while also being reward isn't I would say about individual glory but rather obedience to god will.

As for Odin and victory: Odin does not care from where blood flows, only that it flows Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-05-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 08:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 08:25 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So you're saying that those committing the child sacrifice declared the child was innocent? Or are you stating the obvious fact, that you recognize that the child is innocent?

You need help. Badly. Since you are totally ignorant, the answer is "Yes, the mob knew and declared them as innocent".
"Because of this offense for which Israel is corporately responsible, Jeremiah predicts disaster (7:32-34 and 19:1-3), 6-15). If only the people would repent, disaster could be thwarted (Jeremiah 18:5-11). But the Israelites were a "stiff-necked" people who would not listen to God's words (Jer. 9:15; see also 18:12; cf 18:5-11). They had forsaken their God to serve other gods even to the extent that they would sacrifice their own children spilling "the blood of the innocent" (Jer. 19:4). Mannaseh's grandson Josiah had tried to bring about reformation among the Israelites.

Uhm, I think you need help.

You highlighted passages in which Jeremiah condemns child sacrifices, declares them as "the blood of the innocent". This doesn't reveal that those who committed these acts saw the children as innocent, because if they did they likely would be siding with Jeremiah here. Not to mention the fact that using the bible here is not going to help you. There's plenty of passages of the bible in which the murdered victim is seen as innocent, from Genesis onward, starting with the story of Cain and Abel.

But we're talking about pre-judeo Christian mythologies with a human sacrifice at the center of them. These narratives all follow the same patterns, unlike the Christian myth, in which the innocence of victim and the guilt of his murderers is concealed.

These myths are from the perspective of the murderers, the ones doing the sacrificing. As a result the features of mythology are distinct from the features that make the Christian myth unique. The Christian Myth in essence is the story of the victim, rather than one from the perspective of the victimizers. The victims, and their sympathizers recognize the murder victims innocence, the perpetuators don't. And these mythologies were always told from the perspective of the perpetuators, for whom that basic truth, is concealed.
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17-05-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 06:07 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 07:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Looks like the Buddhists beat them.

What the baldies do in the la-la land Orient does not detract from real world Occidental accomplishment. Big Grin

But but but, John the Baptist may very well have been an Essene and the Buddhist influence on the Essenes is pretty well established. Those baldies got around. A proper prophet would have known this. Tongue

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 06:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  None of these myths declare the innocence of their victim. You are reading that into the practice. Find one Mayan, Phoenician myth in which the innocence of the victim they sacrificed is declared as innocent.

The only thing you find in a google search is sites doing the exact same thing you're doing here. Reading back into the material, what's not there to begin with. You and no one else here has yet provided a pre-judeo Christian myth in which the human sacrifice victims innocence is declared.

More likely you are reading something into Jesus' crucifixion which isn't there in some desperate quixotic attempt to distinguish it from pagan human sacrifice.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 09:49 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 09:36 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  More likely you are reading something into Jesus' crucifixion which isn't there in some desperate quixotic attempt to distinguish it from pagan human sacrifice.

I don't have to read his innocence back into the text. That's acknowledged by the text itself, in various passages. They even have their Pilate character acknowledging this.

Where in pagan human sacrifice myths, you would have to read that back into the text, because the innocence of the victim is omitted. It's this attempt to read this innocence back into pagan text, claiming that these mythologies recognized the innocence of their victims, is one that is desperate.
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17-05-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 08:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Take a class someday. Please.

https://books.google.com/books?id=PASL_g...st&f=false

tee hee tee hee. That link to "sheep" is right nest to "Shekhinah". Always makes me me think of Marky Mark and his one massive thigh. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 09:57 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 09:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2015 09:36 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  More likely you are reading something into Jesus' crucifixion which isn't there in some desperate quixotic attempt to distinguish it from pagan human sacrifice.

I don't have to read his innocence back into the text. That's acknowledged by the text itself, in various passages. They even have their Pilate character acknowledging this.

Where in pagan human sacrifice myths, you would have to read that back into the text, in which the innocence of the victim is omitted. It's this attempt to read this innocence back into pagan text, claiming that these mythologies recognized the innocence of their victims, is one that is desperate.

Your trivial semantic distinctions seem to be lost on everyone but you and some obscure Christian's ideas you are apeing. When that happens to me I typically reconsider those semantics. But that's cause I'm rational and shit. If that's all you got you have most certainly built your house upon the sand.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 09:56 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 10:04 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
So to update. Despite Tomatillo's feeble objections regarding the crucifixion, the only concept still in the running as uniquely attributable to Christianity is the Rapture as pointed out by ToneDeaf77. ZooChow has refuted Ragnarök but there's gotta be some ancient mythological basis to this. Ima keep looking.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-05-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
What about the cross?
I did a little poking around, I still can't find another religion that uses their god's means of death as a symbol for him.
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17-05-2015, 10:04 AM
RE: Are there any novel concepts uniquely attributable to Christianity?
(17-05-2015 10:02 AM)pablo Wrote:  What about the cross?
I did a little poking around, I still can't find another religion that uses their god's means of death as a symbol for him.

There's the Egyptian Ankh.
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