Are we impacting our own evolution?
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23-05-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(23-05-2014 05:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 05:06 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  I know that, that's why I said to immunity. I meant humans will not evolve like speciation or a new sub species because we can make the environment change for our comfort. I know humans evolve immunity to diseases. Here is what I mean.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18778274

"Ecological fitting is the process whereby organisms colonize and persist in novel environments, use novel resources or form novel associations with other species as a result of the suites of traits that they carry at the time they encounter the novel condition"

Humans have done this as we have a novel environment (houses, apartments, mansions) and we have a a novel association with animals we call pets. This is what I meant when humans won't evolve.

There could become reproductively isolated groups of humans, and that would allow speciation.

Knew you were going to say that but the question is where? Will they never be discovered by other humans? Will they die out anyway? There are many factors we must consider, however you are correct in that this is a probability in the evolution of another member of the genus homo.

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23-05-2014, 07:21 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(23-05-2014 05:46 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 05:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  There could become reproductively isolated groups of humans, and that would allow speciation.

Knew you were going to say that but the question is where? Will they never be discovered by other humans? Will they die out anyway? There are many factors we must consider, however you are correct in that this is a probability in the evolution of another member of the genus homo.

I was just making the most obvious point. We can't predict what will result from the new/changed selection pressures. There need not be isolation, like a Mars colony, just slow, inexorable selection. Or just genetic drift.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-05-2014, 08:58 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(23-05-2014 07:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-05-2014 05:46 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Knew you were going to say that but the question is where? Will they never be discovered by other humans? Will they die out anyway? There are many factors we must consider, however you are correct in that this is a probability in the evolution of another member of the genus homo.

I was just making the most obvious point. We can't predict what will result from the new/changed selection pressures. There need not be isolation, like a Mars colony, just slow, inexorable selection. Or just genetic drift.

Again this is correct(most of the time, but it is only predictable to what the organism will change into with artificial selection and even then we still might not know).

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23-05-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(23-05-2014 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yabut, the clock is not conscious.

You don't think that the act of thinking alters brain function? I most certainly do.
Consciousness isn't something magical. Its entirely governed by the four natural forces. It's complex, sure, it carries out rules, it incorporates past experiences. But it is still a machine acting inside the laws of physics.
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26-05-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
Has anyone read this book?

The 10,000 Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human EVolution by Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending

It sounds interesting and is on my wish list on my Kindle It claims that there has been evolutionary changes in the past 10,000 years beginning with the rise of agriculture and modern living. Modern living- that is to say not living in a cave.

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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26-05-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(15-05-2014 10:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  The path is not predetermined (regardless of what Calvinists might think)

I think it's safe to call Fatalists the Atheistic Calvinists

(15-05-2014 11:34 AM)Jmspencer11 Wrote:  I dont think you are wrong in this,but personally i think we can use technology to advance our evolution. but the only way we could do this is to completely change our society. if you have never seen zeitgeist i would advise for everyone to watch it. they have a genious idea of changing our world by switching it to a technologicly advanced world using a resource based economy. were if money wasnt an option. we could have advanced machinery do most of the jobs so that we can concentrate on education instead of trying to make enough money to survive. I think the thing holding our evolution back the most is our extremely unfair monetary economic system more than anything.

Sorry but you have displayed no knowledge of Evolution or Economics by making this ridiculous assertion.

(15-05-2014 06:40 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Is that you, Luminion? Laugh out load
Luminion is more of a libertarian anarchist, Jmspencer11 is more of a socialist anarchist. Both pretty crazy ideas nevertheless.

(22-05-2014 08:22 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  There is no choices, just an illusion of choice. Predetermination.. We do no effect our own evolution in the way he was implying. We are a movie, albeit complex, but a movie nonetheless.. just a resultant of initial cause(Big Bang)

You are confusing scientific causation with philosphical fatalism (AKA atheistic calvinism). Just because you have one doesn't mean you have the other. It's really comparing apples to oranges here. You should read some philosphers like Dennett on this.

(23-05-2014 08:30 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  One Vienna uni professor claims that the rising number in C-sextions is due to a overall shrinking in size of female pelvic bones that is the result of slim women being seen as more atractive and having higher chance of reproduction.

The rising number of C sections is probably due to the rise in obstetrics over midwifes. Obstetricians prefer c-sections because they are schedulable, quick, and profitable. They often admit to pressure women to go for C-sections.

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26-05-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(26-05-2014 03:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Has anyone read this book?

The 10,000 Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human EVolution by Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending

It sounds interesting and is on my wish list on my Kindle It claims that there has been evolutionary changes in the past 10,000 years beginning with the rise of agriculture and modern living. Modern living- that is to say not living in a cave.

Sounds like social evolution.

I've not read it but look forward to your show and tell after you're kindled.

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26-05-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(26-05-2014 04:22 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  ...
confusing scientific causation with philosophical fatalism (AKA atheistic calvinism). Just because you have one doesn't mean you have the other. It's really comparing apples to oranges here. You should read some philosophers like Dennett on this.
...

Welcome back, djk. Sounds like you've been studying stuff since we last met. I look froward to being enlightened.

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26-05-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(26-05-2014 05:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Sounds like social evolution.

I've not read it but look forward to your show and tell after you're kindled.

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Are the rest of us invited for hot dogs and s'mores?

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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26-05-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: Are we impacting our own evolution?
(26-05-2014 05:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome back, djk. Sounds like you've been studying stuff since we last met. I look froward to being enlightened.

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Has this anything to do with the afore-mentioned kindling?

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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