Are we trapped in eternity?
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30-11-2016, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2016 09:23 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
(30-11-2016 07:58 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  
(28-11-2016 08:15 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  There's no reason to believe that your consciousness would survive after the big bang, matter would be torn down past the quark level and reassembled if that scenario were true.

If we were duplicated and a version of you exists on a duplicate Earth at some time in the future, then it's a meaningless type of reincarnation, you won't have any memories of your previous incarnations and you can't experience the reboot in any meaningful sense.

If we keep gaining another conciousness (and we wont notice all the billions of year it might between each life), we'll be imprisoned in eternity even though we of course would be rebooted without any memories.

It's not meaningless as long as you gain a conciousness like the one you have now.
Which means you will endure every destiny possible, good and cruel...
But only if the universe (or the place outside it) functions the way I'm talking, which wouldn't be the most unlikely hypothesy ever made...

No, YOU won't endure it over and over, only this version of you will ever experience it. There is nothing to connect your previous incarnations to your future ones.

The entire idea is rather fantastic and improbable, consider how easy it is to stack unlikely presuppositions on top of unlikely presupposition.

You need a universe that restarts periodically and reassembles the matter and energy EXACTLY like it was before, there is absolutely no evidence of such a thing happening ever, not even on much smaller scales within this universe.

Then once you have this implausible reality, for some unknown reason, conscious brains from the previous epoch will link to the brains of this epoch. How could you possibly come to this conclusion? What would be the mechanism that facilitates this bizarre conscious linking?

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-11-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
If we are trapped in eternity, I'm going to need Jason Statham and an endless supply of Starbucks Wink
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30-11-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
(28-11-2016 03:27 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  If the universe some day reaches its limit and collapses in on itself before another big bang happens and it all starts over again, does that mean there's a slight chance we're all going to eventually live all kinds of lives that has ever been? Like being a jew in 1943, or a "witch" being burnt alive? Being a pr0nstar?

I thought I had escaped the horrifying thought of eternity when I became an atheist, but now I'm not too sure anymore...
I'm not seeing how you go from the universe collapsing and re-emerging to us being reincarnated. Based on what we do know, I think the most reasonable conclusion is that when you die, you die and you are gone forever regardless of what the universe does.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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30-11-2016, 09:26 AM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
(30-11-2016 09:20 AM)jennybee Wrote:  If we are trapped in eternity, I'm going to need Jason Statham and an endless supply of Starbucks Wink

Is this enough starbucks for you?

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30-11-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
(30-11-2016 08:06 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  Thanks!
I understand what you're saying.
If the universe is open, then it seems logical that it will never "crunch".
But one can dream!

You're welcome! Thumbsup

Well... if the Universe is 'Open' then what we'll eventually get is the 'Heat death' of the universe as eventually ALL forms of energy will finally petter out and even atoms will stop vibrating etc.

Of course I did see an article in a 'New Scientist' magazine about the 'fabric' of reality 'tearing' and some new form of 'Reality' expanding along behind said 'tear'.

Hopefully some one better versed in such things will pop in and give a better explanation of stuff. Smile

Much cheers to you.
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30-11-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
(30-11-2016 08:01 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  
(28-11-2016 01:07 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I think that your fear is unwaranted. Death seems to be end and nothing points to different conclusion.

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If conciousness arised once, what's to say it won't happen again in one of the next big bangs?
If this universe collapses and starts over, that is.
If. And that's pretty big if.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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30-11-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
Beyond the science of how the small material part of the known universe is going to end, everything else is fascinating science fiction.

We are trapped in a finite life until we die.

Let's look at Star Trek and their transporter technology.
You step onto a transporter pad and every particle in your body is scanned and saved. Then you are killed. Your life is over.

The new body constructed on the planet's surface has your memories and there is no discernible difference between the you that was on the ship and the you on the planet.

You could even say that the person on the planet is a new consciousness with your memories.

It is the custom of the people in Star Trek to treat individuals who have the same memories from a transporter experience as the same person.

The ship could, if someone ordered it, create an army of you on the surface from the saved info in the buffers.

They could create a copy of you a 1000 yrs later, hopefully without too much degradation.

Or let's get wild and do a Galactus.
Some storage facility is created that survives the end of the universe and that copy of you (in the buffers) survives into the next universe.

Someone finds it a few billion years later and you are revived with memories from the previous universe.

There ya go "trapped by science fiction"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-11-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
Not only is the universe expanding, that expansion is accelerating. A Big Rip or Heat Death seem more likely than a Big Crunch.

In the event of a cyclic universe, you won't remember it. You won't be you. It's ridiculously unlikely that the energy that makes up the matter that calls itself you will even be in the same galaxies any more. The laws of physics don't survive the singularity, why would your consiousness?

For evidence I offer up the simple fact that you don't remember any previous cycles. That means that either the universe isn't cyclic, consciousness doesn't survive from one cycle to the next, or that you are infinitely improbably in the very first cycle of an eternal universe.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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01-12-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: Are we trapped in eternity?
Short version: "You" are your consciousness. Your consciousness emanates from your brain. When your brain ceases, the only way "you" could live again is if some other brain emitted the same pattern as your brain. Even if another human was born that had a brain exactly identical to your when you were born, that person would still not be "you" as such a person would grow up differently based on experience and environment. Thus it would have to be another world identical to this one and since you have no consciouness of being other, those other copies aren't "you" either.
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