Are you afraid of love?
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04-09-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(03-09-2014 01:05 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(03-09-2014 11:19 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I always wonder why love is always such a huge effort. Particularly when it increases in its level of commitment. Why does it take such commitment and focus to simply be fond of someone?

People can be friends for YEARS and have just as much chemistry and commitment and affection for one another 50 years down the road as they did the day they met on the playground. I've got friends I've known since before I was forming memories. We literally can't remember how or when we met, but we've always been the best of friends and we'd do anything for each other.

But then, when the love steps up a little in its potency (or, perhaps, changes type?) and two people decide to be partners, suddenly it's a huge balancing act. Suddenly the same commitment and affection they'd felt with ease for years as friends becomes a homework assignment, and rather than a failing/passing grade, its their very livelihood that hangs in the balance. I really don't understand this. I've had numerous friendships, I've had numerous partners, and I've had partners with whom I once shared a friendship. Somehow, when the relationship between two people becomes "serious," then the clock starts ticking on when they start resenting one another.

Maybe it has to do with how our society views partnership. Maybe the very same love between two people is viewed in a different context - even by those who are in love - when they enter a "serious" relationship. Or maybe it has to do with being around the person more constantly. (Familiarity breeds contempt and all that) Either way, the friendship somehow becomes a chore, and the two people start hurting and hating one another as the relationship grows stagnant.


I've always felt that I wanted a partner who's just my best friend. But that doesn't seem to be possible. These days, people say one thing to their partner and then a completely different thing - the raw truth - to their real best friend(s). That's why guys/gals go to bars with only their friends and leave their partners at home. So they can talk openly and freely with those they truly feel comfortable with before heading back to the dungeon with the old "ball and chain." (The fact that that's a phrase in common use speaks volumes)

Anyway, I've opted out of all of it. Too complicated, too headache-inducing, too confusing and frustrating. Give me a beer, a good book and a BJ on occasion and I'm set. Thumbsup

I've had it explained to me that it's like having to maintain your car see....
Hmmmm...I tend to fade out then...

A marriage is being likened to maintenance on a car? I get it but still...

Can I just say...I love your ideology! Big Grin

Of course you can. In fact, people should be saying that to me daily. Smartass



GET ON IT, PEOPLE. Angry

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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04-09-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
I disagree with a lot of your post. But I see some great points as well. Let me see...
(03-09-2014 11:19 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I always wonder why love is always such a huge effort. Particularly when it increases in its level of commitment. Why does it take such commitment and focus to simply be fond of someone?
I don't think this applies to just romantic relationships, but most interpersonal relationships. You have to show a level of commitment and reliability as a friend or family member in order maintain those relationships. Just the expectations are lower (and usually easier).

Quote:People can be friends for YEARS and have just as much chemistry and commitment and affection for one another 50 years down the road as they did the day they met on the playground. I've got friends I've known since before I was forming memories. We literally can't remember how or when we met, but we've always been the best of friends and we'd do anything for each other.

But then, when the love steps up a little in its potency (or, perhaps, changes type?) and two people decide to be partners, suddenly it's a huge balancing act. Suddenly the same commitment and affection they'd felt with ease for years as friends becomes a homework assignment, and rather than a failing/passing grade, its their very livelihood that hangs in the balance. I really don't understand this. I've had numerous friendships, I've had numerous partners, and I've had partners with whom I once shared a friendship. Somehow, when the relationship between two people becomes "serious," then the clock starts ticking on when they start resenting one another.
To me, that sounds like the result of miscommunication. Letting each other know what you want and expect from a relationship is important. Things like fidelity, commitment, shared activities, affection, appreciation, alone time, sensuality, etc., should be discussed. Resentment brews when needs/wants/expectations are not being met. So just talk about these things and decide whether meeting these are worth being in a relationship for. If they aren't, then you're not aligned with the person you are with, and should probably move on.

Quote:Maybe it has to do with how our society views partnership. Maybe the very same love between two people is viewed in a different context - even by those who are in love - when they enter a "serious" relationship. Or maybe it has to do with being around the person more constantly. (Familiarity breeds contempt and all that) Either way, the friendship somehow becomes a chore, and the two people start hurting and hating one another as the relationship grows stagnant.

I've always felt that I wanted a partner who's just my best friend. But that doesn't seem to be possible. These days, people say one thing to their partner and then a completely different thing - the raw truth - to their real best friend(s). That's why guys/gals go to bars with only their friends and leave their partners at home. So they can talk openly and freely with those they truly feel comfortable with before heading back to the dungeon with the old "ball and chain." (The fact that that's a phrase in common use speaks volumes)
I agree that society heavily influences what we expect out of a relationship. Also, being in a relationship with your best friend is completely the right way to go about it IMO (not all people agree on this). But again, communication is key. I straight up tell my girlfriend when I need alone time, or when I'm going out with my friends. It has nothing to do with feeling like I have to hold back with her or get away from her, and everything to do with honoring my own needs, as well as my friendships. I don't subscribe to the "attached at the hip" version of relationships, and she knows that and agrees. We love our time together, but we don't live in a bubble where the rest of the world doesn't exist. Besides, if you are together all the time, you run out of things to talk about.

I also agree that being together constantly can be a rub. Especially when you are an introvert and really appreciate your alone time. The way I've dealt with that is to get everything out in the open (again, communication) about what we expect from each other at home. Specifically I addressed the difference between obligation and quality time. We try to stay away from being obligated to spend a certain amount of time with each other, and instead spend a few hours of quality time together most nights before we go do our own things.

Quote:Anyway, I've opted out of all of it. Too complicated, too headache-inducing, too confusing and frustrating. Give me a beer, a good book and a BJ on occasion and I'm set. Thumbsup
But hey, if that's what makes you happiest then go for it! You have no obligation to participate in this particular social practice.

I might be fortunate in finding who I did...but I believe most people can find somebody who is compatible with them and who aligns with their own expectations/wants/needs. Finding that person definitely isn't always easy. I mean consider the probability? (especially if you are a strange bird, like myself).

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04-09-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(04-09-2014 12:41 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I disagree with a lot of your post. But I see some great points as well. Let me see...
(03-09-2014 11:19 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I always wonder why love is always such a huge effort. Particularly when it increases in its level of commitment. Why does it take such commitment and focus to simply be fond of someone?
I don't think this applies to just romantic relationships, but most interpersonal relationships. You have to show a level of commitment and reliability as a friend or family member in order maintain those relationships. Just the expectations are lower (and usually easier).

Quote:People can be friends for YEARS and have just as much chemistry and commitment and affection for one another 50 years down the road as they did the day they met on the playground. I've got friends I've known since before I was forming memories. We literally can't remember how or when we met, but we've always been the best of friends and we'd do anything for each other.

But then, when the love steps up a little in its potency (or, perhaps, changes type?) and two people decide to be partners, suddenly it's a huge balancing act. Suddenly the same commitment and affection they'd felt with ease for years as friends becomes a homework assignment, and rather than a failing/passing grade, its their very livelihood that hangs in the balance. I really don't understand this. I've had numerous friendships, I've had numerous partners, and I've had partners with whom I once shared a friendship. Somehow, when the relationship between two people becomes "serious," then the clock starts ticking on when they start resenting one another.
To me, that sounds like the result of miscommunication. Letting each other know what you want and expect from a relationship is important. Things like fidelity, commitment, shared activities, affection, appreciation, alone time, sensuality, etc., should be discussed. Resentment brews when needs/wants/expectations are not being met. So just talk about these things and decide whether meeting these are worth being in a relationship for. If they aren't, then you're not aligned with the person you are with, and should probably move on.

Quote:Maybe it has to do with how our society views partnership. Maybe the very same love between two people is viewed in a different context - even by those who are in love - when they enter a "serious" relationship. Or maybe it has to do with being around the person more constantly. (Familiarity breeds contempt and all that) Either way, the friendship somehow becomes a chore, and the two people start hurting and hating one another as the relationship grows stagnant.

I've always felt that I wanted a partner who's just my best friend. But that doesn't seem to be possible. These days, people say one thing to their partner and then a completely different thing - the raw truth - to their real best friend(s). That's why guys/gals go to bars with only their friends and leave their partners at home. So they can talk openly and freely with those they truly feel comfortable with before heading back to the dungeon with the old "ball and chain." (The fact that that's a phrase in common use speaks volumes)
I agree that society heavily influences what we expect out of a relationship. Also, being in a relationship with your best friend is completely the right way to go about it IMO (not all people agree on this). But again, communication is key. I straight up tell my girlfriend when I need alone time, or when I'm going out with my friends. It has nothing to do with feeling like I have to hold back with her or get away from her, and everything to do with honoring my own needs, as well as my friendships. I don't subscribe to the "attached at the hip" version of relationships, and she knows that and agrees. We love our time together, but we don't live in a bubble where the rest of the world doesn't exist. Besides, if you are together all the time, you run out of things to talk about.

I also agree that being together constantly can be a rub. Especially when you are an introvert and really appreciate your alone time. The way I've dealt with that is to get everything out in the open (again, communication) about what we expect from each other at home. Specifically I addressed the difference between obligation and quality time. We try to stay away from being obligated to spend a certain amount of time with each other, and instead spend a few hours of quality time together most nights before we go do our own things.

Quote:Anyway, I've opted out of all of it. Too complicated, too headache-inducing, too confusing and frustrating. Give me a beer, a good book and a BJ on occasion and I'm set. Thumbsup
But hey, if that's what makes you happiest then go for it! You have no obligation to participate in this particular social practice.

I might be fortunate in finding who I did...but I believe most people can find somebody who is compatible with them and who aligns with their own expectations/wants/needs. Finding that person definitely isn't always easy. I mean consider the probability? (especially if you are a strange bird, like myself).

This is great info!
So, a question. My last relationship was a few months, but everything was near perfect. I was upfront about my aversion to marriage and he seemed to agree. We fell in love and he changed his stance on marriage, I didn't. We broke up. So, the question is...everything was effortless. I understand about communication but...shouldn't true love be effortless?

Meaning, I don't care for the idea of having a sit down to discuss expectations. Does it bother you to discuss expectations?

Not sure if I'm articulating this right. Blush

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04-09-2014, 05:35 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(04-09-2014 05:25 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 12:41 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I disagree with a lot of your post. But I see some great points as well. Let me see...
I don't think this applies to just romantic relationships, but most interpersonal relationships. You have to show a level of commitment and reliability as a friend or family member in order maintain those relationships. Just the expectations are lower (and usually easier).

To me, that sounds like the result of miscommunication. Letting each other know what you want and expect from a relationship is important. Things like fidelity, commitment, shared activities, affection, appreciation, alone time, sensuality, etc., should be discussed. Resentment brews when needs/wants/expectations are not being met. So just talk about these things and decide whether meeting these are worth being in a relationship for. If they aren't, then you're not aligned with the person you are with, and should probably move on.

I agree that society heavily influences what we expect out of a relationship. Also, being in a relationship with your best friend is completely the right way to go about it IMO (not all people agree on this). But again, communication is key. I straight up tell my girlfriend when I need alone time, or when I'm going out with my friends. It has nothing to do with feeling like I have to hold back with her or get away from her, and everything to do with honoring my own needs, as well as my friendships. I don't subscribe to the "attached at the hip" version of relationships, and she knows that and agrees. We love our time together, but we don't live in a bubble where the rest of the world doesn't exist. Besides, if you are together all the time, you run out of things to talk about.

I also agree that being together constantly can be a rub. Especially when you are an introvert and really appreciate your alone time. The way I've dealt with that is to get everything out in the open (again, communication) about what we expect from each other at home. Specifically I addressed the difference between obligation and quality time. We try to stay away from being obligated to spend a certain amount of time with each other, and instead spend a few hours of quality time together most nights before we go do our own things.

But hey, if that's what makes you happiest then go for it! You have no obligation to participate in this particular social practice.

I might be fortunate in finding who I did...but I believe most people can find somebody who is compatible with them and who aligns with their own expectations/wants/needs. Finding that person definitely isn't always easy. I mean consider the probability? (especially if you are a strange bird, like myself).

This is great info!
So, a question. My last relationship was a few months, but everything was near perfect. I was upfront about my aversion to marriage and he seemed to agree. We fell in love and he changed his stance on marriage, I didn't. We broke up. So, the question is...everything was effortless. I understand about communication but...shouldn't true love be effortless?

Meaning, I don't care for the idea of having a sit down to discuss expectations. Does it bother you to discuss expectations?

Not sure if I'm articulating this right. Blush

I'm not the one you asked, but Im gonna say something anyway. Cause thats how I am. Tongue

Effortless love? In the movies sure. But you love your family and is that effortless? Probably not. When you are around someone all the time and you're close to them youre going to have disagreements and different view points. If you never fight or its super easy all the time I'd be worried about honesty in the relationship.

Plus I might add he was talking marriage after a couple months? That would scare me off too. Lol. Thats too soon (imo) and I'm not sure how old you are but Im thinking early 20s? Waaay too young. Wait till youre at least 30.
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04-09-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
As for abusive relationships, I have a theory based on my experience at least. Growing up in an abusive household (both parents) it was my 'normal'. That may not make sense to some but when it's all you know it seems to be the way things are supposed to be.

For one thing the abuse is hidden from the outside world. It is NOT discussed outside the home. When there were other people around (read eyewitnesses) we were a normal family. In fact, appearing normal was of the highest importance to my parents. Because of that I thought that everybody went through the same kinds of things but just acted right when I was around.

I also remember thinking that all the families on TV were so fake. I really couldn't imagine what a happy family would be like in real life.

I didn't fare too well with relationships over the years but always tried to protect and shield my kids from what I grew up with. I know I wasn't totally successful but I think I did at least improve on what I dealt with.

Unfortunately - the abuse toward me, from my mother in particular, didn't end till I stopped having contact with her a few years ago. Yeah, decades of abuse made me really, really cautious. Overly so.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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04-09-2014, 07:49 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(04-09-2014 05:35 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 05:25 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  This is great info!
So, a question. My last relationship was a few months, but everything was near perfect. I was upfront about my aversion to marriage and he seemed to agree. We fell in love and he changed his stance on marriage, I didn't. We broke up. So, the question is...everything was effortless. I understand about communication but...shouldn't true love be effortless?

Meaning, I don't care for the idea of having a sit down to discuss expectations. Does it bother you to discuss expectations?

Not sure if I'm articulating this right. Blush

I'm not the one you asked, but Im gonna say something anyway. Cause thats how I am. Tongue

Effortless love? In the movies sure. But you love your family and is that effortless? Probably not. When you are around someone all the time and you're close to them youre going to have disagreements and different view points. If you never fight or its super easy all the time I'd be worried about honesty in the relationship.

Plus I might add he was talking marriage after a couple months? That would scare me off too. Lol. Thats too soon (imo) and I'm not sure how old you are but Im thinking early 20s? Waaay too young. Wait till youre at least 30.

Effortless- sometimes it seems that way for my husband and I, and some days it seems like he is stomping on my last nerve. But I feel that way about every.single.person in my life.

I think it's just finding a person who can roll thru life with you. A person who always has your back, a person worthy of your trust, a person you feel safe being vulnerable to, and you being that person for them. But I think you grow into those things over time. Attractiveness and passion and desire for them physically is part of it, but you grow into a partner. And you have to want to be part of a team, and be ok with busting your ass for the success of someone else while you get nothing. Its giving 100% to a relationship, not 50/50. It's not easy, and it's not for everyone.

It took 5 years of shacking up to decide if we were the right ones for each other, and then a few more to get this far. But I know we are a team and we always have each other's backs.


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04-09-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
Hobbit Girl, Bows and Arrows, and Anjele, thank you for sharing all that you have.

I just don't know some days, just wish I could get past some of my fears but oh well. :/
Thanks for letting me vent and I've gained some great insight from you all.

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04-09-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(04-09-2014 05:25 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  This is great info!
So, a question. My last relationship was a few months, but everything was near perfect. I was upfront about my aversion to marriage and he seemed to agree. We fell in love and he changed his stance on marriage, I didn't. We broke up. So, the question is...everything was effortless. I understand about communication but...shouldn't true love be effortless?

Meaning, I don't care for the idea of having a sit down to discuss expectations. Does it bother you to discuss expectations?

Not sure if I'm articulating this right. Blush
Well, I can't accurately say what was going on in your ex bfs mind. But my thoughts are.
1. He could have been lying about not being interested in marriage from the start. He may have been thinking, "I'm not interested in marriage, unless I find the right girl. Until then I'm just having fun. It's unlikely this will be the right girl, so I will go along with her non-marriage stuff for now."

2. He could have legitimately changed and started to feel that a life with you was exactly what he wanted. Solidifying that in a social commitment like marriage would make him feel official and secure that the two of you would stay together.

3. If he really was talking about marriage after a couple of months....RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!! (which I know you did). But seriously, even if you loved the idea of marriage, I would say to run from somebody who brings marriage up after just a few months.
---
As far as love being effortless. I think it mostly is. But, at the same time it often involves re-prioritizing. Making the feelings/happiness of the person you love your priority can include extra work. And it's pure fantasy that two human beings can live in perfect (honest, open) harmony without any sort of issues popping up. I mean, I don't necessarily think you have to fight (I've only been in like...3 fights with partners in my entire life). But disagreements, sacrifice, and sometimes a small struggle to understand and meet the needs of your partner are going to happen in a healthy relationship (IMO).

And talking it out doesn't sound appealing...but honestly it's nice to have those talks. What do you expect in the future? What do you expect from a relationship? Do you like to talk things out often? Or do you like to keep it inside until you are ready to open up?

Some things you will learn over time...some things you really do have to ask. And why not ask? I want a partner I can be open and honest with..I don't want to be afraid to ask. So I won't be.

These are just my ramblings. I've always been a bleeding heart romantic, although I'm probably less of one now than I was growing up.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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04-09-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
Am I afraid of love?

Nuh uh. I up and got me to the "luv doctor".
Now I ain't afeerd a nuthin.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-09-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Are you afraid of love?
(04-09-2014 07:49 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 05:35 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I'm not the one you asked, but Im gonna say something anyway. Cause thats how I am. Tongue

Effortless love? In the movies sure. But you love your family and is that effortless? Probably not. When you are around someone all the time and you're close to them youre going to have disagreements and different view points. If you never fight or its super easy all the time I'd be worried about honesty in the relationship.

Plus I might add he was talking marriage after a couple months? That would scare me off too. Lol. Thats too soon (imo) and I'm not sure how old you are but Im thinking early 20s? Waaay too young. Wait till youre at least 30.

Effortless- sometimes it seems that way for my husband and I, and some days it seems like he is stomping on my last nerve. But I feel that way about every.single.person in my life.

I think it's just finding a person who can roll thru life with you. A person who always has your back, a person worthy of your trust, a person you feel safe being vulnerable to, and you being that person for them. But I think you grow into those things over time. Attractiveness and passion and desire for them physically is part of it, but you grow into a partner. And you have to want to be part of a team, and be ok with busting your ass for the success of someone else while you get nothing. Its giving 100% to a relationship, not 50/50. It's not easy, and it's not for everyone.

It took 5 years of shacking up to decide if we were the right ones for each other, and then a few more to get this far. But I know we are a team and we always have each other's backs.


''It's giving 100%, not 50/50''

Wow, I don't believe I've ever looked at relationships in that way, and frankly, if we always *tried* to put our best feet forward whether it's a job, friendship, romantic relationship...we probably wouldn't succeed more. Succeed being a relative term. lol

I'll have to remember that, thank you for this!

@ Hobbitgirl, I should clarify...haha He wasn't proposing, etc...he was merely telling me that he had changed his stance on wanting to marry, as opposed to being against it, as I thought he was when we first got together.

He was also interested in pursing the idea with me, but it was weird. It was the deal breaker for us, and everything was going really great, so it was surprising that we even had a dealbreaker. Sad

Thank you for the advice and for sharing what's worked for you, as well.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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