Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
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03-04-2014, 08:13 AM
Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
Hello Banjo and Bucky Ball, your opinions are welcome.

(03-04-2014 06:02 AM)Banjo Wrote:  The French produced Denis Diderot, Stendhal, Voltaire, Camus, Descartes, Sartre, Bleriot etc etc.

I like the French. Smile
(03-04-2014 07:46 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  To say nothing of Antoine Marie Jean-Baptiste Roger, comte de Saint Exupéry.
(if you're a Frenchie, you can have a girl name AND and boy name). Weeping
I don't like nor dislike the French, and I don't believe people are Frenchies.

"The French" is an abstract notion, an idea that may be in our minds, but not something you can actually find out there. What you can find, in France and in many other locations, are human beings (as well as many other things). Calling people by their location is missing the point that we are all human.

I don't decide whether I like or dislike a person until I know the person and how he or she behaves in the complex ecosystem that we call society. Once I decide whether I like someone or not, it does not matter whether he or she is French, Spanish, English, Eskimo or extraterrestrial, it makes no difference.

But that is only my view. I thank you both for yours.
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03-04-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 05:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I concur.

Tradition is a powerful mind-bender.

And ... who doesn't hate the French?

Angel

Me. I'm like 90% French (Acadian). We are great people.
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03-04-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
Growing through my teens I could feel the peer pressured racism, bigotry and religion bleeding off me. My belief in x became unsustainable and I was no longer an x.
I realised that I only ever believed in the misguided beliefs of others.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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03-04-2014, 08:27 AM
Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 08:15 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 05:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ... who doesn't hate the French? Angel
Me. I'm like 90% French (Acadian). We are great people.
Hello wazzel, how are you?

There is no reason for me to think that you are not a great person, however, does that mean that everyone of French origin is a great person? Robespierre was from France, was he great? Are there no thieves, rapists or murderers in France?

Human beings can be great people, but we can also be the worst scum. And that has nothing to do with the name we choose to call ourselves.

It is like saying that people named Adolph are bastards. Well, I can think of at least one, but that doesn't mean all of them are, does it?
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03-04-2014, 08:30 AM
Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
Hello sporehux, thanks for your experiences.

(03-04-2014 08:25 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Growing through my teens I could feel the peer pressured racism, bigotry and religion bleeding off me. My belief in x became unsustainable and I was no longer an x.
I realised that I only ever believed in the misguided beliefs of others.
I suspect that it is most common that believers are so because they feel it is part of their identity :-(
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03-04-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 08:27 AM)living thing Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 08:15 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Me. I'm like 90% French (Acadian). We are great people.
Hello wazzel, how are you?

There is no reason for me to think that you are not a great person, however, does that mean that everyone of French origin is a great person? Robespierre was from France, was he great? Are there no thieves, rapists or murderers in France?

Human beings can be great people, but we can also be the worst scum. And that has nothing to do with the name we choose to call ourselves.

It is like saying that people named Adolph are bastards. Well, I can think of at least one, but that doesn't mean all of them are, does it?

I'm good, how are you?

That is my general responce to people that hate the French. I do not like or dislike groups, only individuals. Judgement should be withheld one way or the other until you get to know a person.
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03-04-2014, 09:04 AM
Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 08:32 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 08:27 AM)living thing Wrote:  Hello wazzel, how are you?
I'm good, how are you?
Very well, thank you.

(03-04-2014 08:32 AM)wazzel Wrote:  That is my general responce to people that hate the French. I do not like or dislike groups, only individuals. Judgement should be withheld one way or the other until you get to know a person.
I don't remember having seen DLJ claim that he hates people from France. As far as I know, his response to his own question might be "me", meaning himself, so I took his question as an irreverent joke. Does DLJ hate people from France? I don't know.

So your general response to people who you deem they hate the French, is giving yourself the label "French" and then declaring that those who share your label are great? That's a little bit egocentric, isn't it? And how exactly is that going to help humanity overcome its internal tensions?

I don't give a fuck about the name of the country where I live (and where I was born). Some people who share the label I am administratively given are great (at least in my subjective perception of greatness), and some people who also share the label are bastards. If I were to say that the people in "my" country are great, I'd be lying, despite the fact that there are many human beings who I consider extremely valuable for humanity who carry a passport with the same letters stamped on its cover page as I sometimes do. And many more who don't.

If you are offended by people hating French people, I suggest that you stop considering yourself French and begin considering yourself yourself: a unique human being. Then when you eventually hear someone say something like "French people only have one testicle!" you will know that they're not talking about you.

I don't know. I just see myself as a living thing and then I don't have to care if someone says that human beings are twats. I certainly know a few of them!

I thank you for your view, though.
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03-04-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 07:59 AM)living thing Wrote:  Cursing can be soothing...

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-04-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
(03-04-2014 09:04 AM)living thing Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 08:32 AM)wazzel Wrote:  I'm good, how are you?
Very well, thank you.

(03-04-2014 08:32 AM)wazzel Wrote:  That is my general responce to people that hate the French. I do not like or dislike groups, only individuals. Judgement should be withheld one way or the other until you get to know a person.
I don't remember having seen DLJ claim that he hates people from France. As far as I know, his response to his own question might be "me", meaning himself, so I took his question as an irreverent joke. Does DLJ hate people from France? I don't know.

So your general response to people who you deem they hate the French, is giving yourself the label "French" and then declaring that those who share your label are great? That's a little bit egocentric, isn't it? And how exactly is that going to help humanity overcome its internal tensions?

I don't give a fuck about the name of the country where I live (and where I was born). Some people who share the label I am administratively given are great (at least in my subjective perception of greatness), and some people who also share the label are bastards. If I were to say that the people in "my" country are great, I'd be lying, despite the fact that there are many human beings who I consider extremely valuable for humanity who carry a passport with the same letters stamped on its cover page as I sometimes do. And many more who don't.

If you are offended by people hating French people, I suggest that you stop considering yourself French and begin considering yourself yourself: a unique human being. Then when you eventually hear someone say something like "French people only have one testicle!" you will know that they're not talking about you.

I don't know. I just see myself as a living thing and then I don't have to care if someone says that human beings are twats. I certainly know a few of them!

I thank you for your view, though.

You read alot into not much of a post by me.
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03-04-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Are you an X because you believe in X'? Or do you believe in X' because you are an X?
How can you believe in Christ because you are a Christian?

That's like saying "are you a golfer because you play golf?" They are the same bloody thing Tongue
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