Poll: Are you out or in the closet?
I am completely in the closet
I am out to one person only.
I am out to a few people.
I am out in my private life, but not at work.
I am out at work but not to my family.
I come out when asked.
I shout it from the roof tops.
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Are you out or in the closet?
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11-05-2017, 02:04 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
(10-05-2017 12:57 AM)Ordinary Atheist Wrote:  ...On their official website, that group defines atheism as the lack of belief in Gods. That stance is completely compatible with agnosticism, so I don't know how they could eject you from the group (or even the chatroom) on the basis of being an agnostic.

It's my personal belief [sic ] that agnosticism is not "compatible" with atheism. Agnostics believe that God or gods may exist, whereas atheists totally deny the possibility of the existence of gods—two diametrically opposed viewpoints.

If anything, agnosticism would be more compatible with theism—and could be said to be "weak" theism.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-05-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
I'm surprised that there are only 133 votes on this poll, thus far. Undecided
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11-05-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
(11-05-2017 02:04 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 12:57 AM)Ordinary Atheist Wrote:  ...On their official website, that group defines atheism as the lack of belief in Gods. That stance is completely compatible with agnosticism, so I don't know how they could eject you from the group (or even the chatroom) on the basis of being an agnostic.

It's my personal belief [sic ] that agnosticism is not "compatible" with atheism. Agnostics believe that God or gods may exist, whereas atheists totally deny the possibility of the existence of gods—two diametrically opposed viewpoints.

If anything, agnosticism would be more compatible with theism—and could be said to be "weak" theism.

That has always been my stance. Either one accepts the possibility of a creator deity or one does not.

I have had discussions with xians, wherein I wrote about a creator deity that I might imagine could exist as a being so far removed from humanity that it would be nothing like any God worshipped, would not seek worship, would not care about humanity and had long ago forgotten that it created such a Universe; perhaps we are the parasites of the waste product of such a being.

But...I did not reason that to be probable and so remain an atheist.

My eldest puts his deity belief this way; he just doesn't care about or contemplate any such thoughts.

The "charge" of agnosticism by the AACHAT moderator and others on the email forum were brought because I supported compassion in dealing with a hypothetical dying young xian who feared going to hell. Others strongly disagreed and would have used the opportunity to "enlighten" the teen about God's non-existance as she died on the scene of an accident, where only an atheist was present.

I don't reason that my atheism has anything to do with my ability to comfort a fellow human being during such an extreme time. I was deeply shocked and saddened that American Atheists apparently felt otherwise.

-Jeanne

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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12-05-2017, 02:34 PM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
(11-05-2017 02:04 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 12:57 AM)Ordinary Atheist Wrote:  ...On their official website, that group defines atheism as the lack of belief in Gods. That stance is completely compatible with agnosticism, so I don't know how they could eject you from the group (or even the chatroom) on the basis of being an agnostic.

It's my personal belief [sic ] that agnosticism is not "compatible" with atheism. Agnostics believe that God or gods may exist, whereas atheists totally deny the possibility of the existence of gods—two diametrically opposed viewpoints.

If anything, agnosticism would be more compatible with theism—and could be said to be "weak" theism.

By that definition of atheism I would definitely be an agnostic. In fact, that would put people like Matt Dillahunty and Richard Dawkins in the agnostic camp as well. I've heard both of them counter Christians trying to shift the burden of proof by stating that they aren't claiming the non-existence of a God. Their stance is that the Theist has not met their burden of proof. That's a very different kind of position.

Claiming that the existence of any sort of God or Gods is impossible puts you in an awkward position. Claims of non-existence are claims that carry the burden of proof.

Theists aren't able to meet their burden of proof, so we are justified in disbelieving their claims. However, a person failing to meet their burden of proof does not demonstrate the impossibility of their claims. That falls on the atheist foolish enough to claim impossibility.

If a theist's definition of a God is self-contradictory, then we can demonstrate that their God can't exist. In all other cases, however, we need to be more careful.
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12-05-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
(11-05-2017 05:41 AM)Jeanne Wrote:  The "charge" of agnosticism by the AACHAT moderator and others on the email forum were brought because I supported compassion in dealing with a hypothetical dying young xian who feared going to hell. Others strongly disagreed and would have used the opportunity to "enlighten" the teen about God's non-existance as she died on the scene of an accident, where only an atheist was present.

I don't reason that my atheism has anything to do with my ability to comfort a fellow human being during such an extreme time. I was deeply shocked and saddened that American Atheists apparently felt otherwise.
I think it's the height of self-absorption to attempt to disabuse someone of the comfort of their illusions when they are in dire straits.

My late wife was a Methodist to the end, and the end came several years after I deconverted. I was frank about my reasons for change of heart, but I did not argue with her when she sought comfort in the Bible or sought the prayers of others. She returned the favor, and lived with me in an understanding way. It probably helped that my metaphysics were the least of her concerns, and that our relationship was based primarily on mutual respect rather than mutual ideology.

Similarly my oldest brother, an elder in a fundamentalist church, sought, and received comfort from me as he died of a rare and aggressive cancer. He did not understand what he had done to displease his god. I simply said that I was the wrong person to ask for explanations of god's ways, but that it is clear he did nothing to deserve what was happening to him. I reminded him that bad things often happen to good people, and good things often happen to bad people. I even invoked the scripture, "god sends his rain on the just and the unjust alike". What he needed was reassurance that he was a good and worthy human, at least in my eyes, not correction of his epistemology.

There is no harm in speaking with a suffering Christian in terms they can relate to. For dog's sake, there is no danger of displeasing some powerful being with insufficient correctness of some imposed dogma, so why do we sometimes act as if there were?!

We complain so often of believers tying to proselytize us and then we feel the need to impose our thinking on people who clearly aren't interested, and, to boot, are busy with their personal pain? Both are equally impertinent.
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15-05-2017, 05:02 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
I shout it from the rooftops. I am completely openly atheist. If anyone asks me what I think about some religious thing, the answer is almost always 'it's bullshit' Tongue
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01-06-2017, 11:05 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
I come out when asked. Most people at work know I'm an atheist, most/if not all all of my friends do. Some of my family does but mostly the topic doesn't come up.
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25-08-2017, 08:31 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
I'm honest about it.
It's not a challenge for me.
My Mom is dead and Dad has admitted that he never believed any of it.
I gotta give him Kudos on that one. He's 89 and he's had several heart attacks.
I'd forgive him if he suddenly "saw the light".
The wife is wishy washy about it.
But she doesn't have much respect for religion.
She's half way on certain things like Ghosts.
That annoys me especially since she and my son love to watch "Ghost Adventures" for hours.
I just make sure to stick my head in the room and declare "what a bunch of crap!"
For me the thing that is a slightly complicated is that we give mixed messages to the kids.
I'm pretty clear about it but we did have them baptized to appease my mom's wishes when she was still around.
She was not well and she basically insisted that she wanted the boys to be baptized before she went.
I could count on one hand all the times that she had attended church where it wasn't a wedding or funeral but just the same she had to have them get the magic water.
Whatever. We did it.
Their baby sitter (more like a grand mother) who has probably spent more time with them than my wife and I combined is a believer but not practicing really.
All in all I'm not sure how confusing it all is for them.
Baby sitter says god is real, mom says ghosts are real and I generally tell them not to listen to either of them that they have a screw loose.
Probably exactly the bag of mixed message that makes for a free thinker.
Hopefully.

[Image: anigif_enhanced-26851-1450298712-2.gif]
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18-09-2017, 12:52 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
I'm out to a few people. My mother, a cousin, my grandmother. I'm also "Facebook Official", for what it's worth. Who even looks at that?

I'm not opposed to coming out as atheist to more people, but I'll probably never come out at work. The coworker that I work closest with is a hard-core Bible-thumping Christian, the sort who plays gospel music at her desk every single day. (Drives me crazy sometimes!) But I know it will make my life way difficult if she found out. She all ready has a habit of having little sermons with other Christians in the office, and she'd probably start trying to "save me" every single day if she knew.

I'll also probably never come out to my maternal grandfather. He is ultra religious and a former pastor. He's the one who originally insisted that my sister and I grow up in church. I love him a great deal, and it's not like I resent him for the years I spent going to church. So I don't really mind pretending like I still believe in god when I visit him.

-
"Who is the clergy?"
"A bunch of mindless idiots who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."
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18-09-2017, 06:44 AM
RE: Are you out or in the closet?
(18-09-2017 12:52 AM)LightSage Wrote:  I'm also "Facebook Official", for what it's worth. Who even looks at that?

You might be surprised; I lost a third of my Facebook friends overnight by switching my religion from Baptist to Catholic. Wink And sorry on work; our secretary is quite similar to that.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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