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Are you really an atheist? - Poll now added!
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23-07-2013, 10:21 AM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2013 05:13 AM by 6.9 Agnostic.)
Are you really an atheist? - Poll now added!
This is perhaps a pedantic question, but are you really an atheist?

I suppose it may depend on what you consider atheism, in the Wikipedia article (a brilliant infallible source [sarcasm]), the first 2 sentences are:-

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5]

So, according to Wikipedia, in a broad sense, I am an atheist, but in a narrower sense, I am not.

Personally, I consider myself to be agnostic, and an anti-theist. I don't think there's anything wrong with being agnostic, even though this is the thinking atheist website!

I am not trying to argue in favour of Pascal's Wager, I prefer the Atheist's Wager, but even the Atheist's Wager possibilities depend on whether or not a benevolent god exists. But I will add, a benevolent god almost certainly does not exist.

Richard Dawkins describes himself as Agnostic, also, Neil deGrasse Tyson has said that the best description of his views about the existence of God was agnosticism.

So, do you really consider yourself to be an atheist? Perhaps an agnostic-atheist?
Agnostic-atheist is another term I suppose I could label myself with.
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23-07-2013, 10:28 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Many of us here use the term Agnostid Atheist when pressed to be specific. Personally, I prefer the term mainly because it describes more than one aspect of me. Definitely a hot topic though.

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23-07-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
AA... I was drunk on god for so long. I needed an Agnostic Atheist group to support me... Weeping

Agnostic Atheist for me - but it's gonna be downhill from here and I'm still researching the subject myself. Thanks for the link for Atheist Wager. Not looked at it before.

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23-07-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  ...Richard Dawkins describes himself as Agnostic...

He refers to himself a tea-pot agnostic/tea-pot atheist in 'The God Delusion' and continues to describe the position as being indistinguishable from Atheism for all practical purposes. I would tend to espouse the same view "The existence of God is possible but it is about as likely that there is a teapot orbiting the sun."

Russell's Teapot

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23-07-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Those two Wikipedia definitions are often referred to as "weak atheism" (no belief in gods) and "strong atheism" (belief that there are no gods).

I love your handle, 6.9 Agnostic, as it's clearly a reflection of the 1-7 scale from The God Delusion and reflects many of us. Richard Dawkins also finds himself at that point on the scale, and usually accepts the term "atheist" for himself though he has tried to replace the word with "bright" (as in, The Thinking Bright.com) because of the baggage that the word carries -- theists often think that all atheism is "strong atheism" and won't believe us when we tell them that we don't have a belief. I myself like the name atheist, but I don't think anything can be known for certain (fundamentally) and so I'm skeptical of all but a few necessary axioms... I'm not a "strong" atheist.

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23-07-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  This is perhaps a pedantic question, but are you really an atheist?

I suppose it may depend on what you consider atheism, in the Wikipedia article (a brilliant infallible source [sarcasm]), the first 2 sentences are:-

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5]

So, according to Wikipedia, in a broad sense, I am an atheist, but in a narrower sense, I am not.

Personally, I consider myself to be agnostic, and an anti-theist. I don't think there's anything wrong with being agnostic, even though this is the thinking atheist website!

I am not trying to argue in favour of Pascal's Wager, I prefer the Atheist's Wager, but even the Atheist's Wager possibilities depend on whether or not a benevolent god exists. But I will add, a benevolent god almost certainly does not exist.

Richard Dawkins describes himself as Agnostic, also, Neil deGrasse Tyson has said that the best description of his views about the existence of God was agnosticism.

So, do you really consider yourself to be an atheist? Perhaps an agnostic-atheist?
Agnostic-atheist is another term I suppose I could label myself with.

On the Dawkins Scale I'm like a 6.9 Agnostic Atheist as well, I've been more or less convinced there are no gods but leave open the possibility I am wrong. The Agnostic position is getting very strained with the advancement of science and most are now playing God of the Gaps. Right about now the only kind of God we can't disprove is the Tinkerer Non-interventionist God who started the Big Bang and the disappeared never entering the Universe and for me Occam's Razor eliminates that one.

My problem with militant agnostics (and yes they do exist, even if they are unsure of it) is they strive to be so open minded their brains fall out. The God Theory fails the null hypothesis the Universe behaves in such a way that Gods are unnecessary and redundant. If proof of a God would turn up tomorrow (say the LHC got his Attention and he appeared before us) then I would happily admit my mistake and then begin trying to figure out how this being works. But until that happens I prefer to give credit where credit is due no jesus didn't die for you but a Sun did we are all stardust.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-07-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 10:32 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  ...Richard Dawkins describes himself as Agnostic...

He refers to himself a tea-pot agnostic/tea-pot atheist in 'The God Delusion' and continues to describe the position as being indistinguishable from Atheism for all practical purposes. I would tend to espouse the same view "The existence of God is possible but it is about as likely that there is a teapot orbiting the sun."

Russell's Teapot

He may have referred to himself as an atheist in the past, but more recently, agnostic

(23-07-2013 10:35 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Those two Wikipedia definitions are often referred to as "weak atheism" (no belief in gods) and "strong atheism" (belief that there are no gods).

I love your handle, 6.9 Agnostic, as it's clearly a reflection of the 1-7 scale from The God Delusion and reflects many of us. Richard Dawkins also finds himself at that point on the scale, and usually accepts the term "atheist" for himself though he has tried to replace the word with "bright" (as in, The Thinking Bright.com) because of the baggage that the word carries -- theists often think that all atheism is "strong atheism" and won't believe us when we tell them that we don't have a belief. I myself like the name atheist, but I don't think anything can be known for certain (fundamentally) and so I'm skeptical of all but a few necessary axioms... I'm not a "strong" atheist.

You're correct about the 1-7 scale from The God Delusion, where he placed himself as a 6, but more recently (check the link in this post), he has updated it to 6.9.

P.S. Dawkins now actually refutes being called an atheist.
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23-07-2013, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2013 11:37 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Basically your question is the same as the point of your name, 6.9 Agnostic. I myself am technically a 6.9999....(9s repeating at infinite) agnostic.

That is to say I hate the term atheist, because it’s a non-think and should not be a word. But for practical intense and purposes and socially I am an atheist. I don’t not believe in God, I disbelieve in God. But for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to admit you cannot prove, or know a negative. Technically we can’t “know” anything, though I don’t lose sleep over that. So as such, again for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to say I’m a agnostic technically, but socially (for all intense and purposes) an atheist.

After all, it’s only mostly us that would bother to make the distinctions of a 6.99999…agnostic. Non-atheist and non-agnostics, at best, only understand a) you don’t believe in God, and b) you are not sure if God exist.

...
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23-07-2013, 11:42 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 11:34 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Basically your question is the same as the point of your name, 6.9 Agnostic. I myself am technically a 6.9999....(9s repeating at infinite) agnostic.

That is to say I hate the term atheist, because it’s a non-think and should not be a word. But for practical intense and purposes and socially I am an atheist. I don’t not believe in God, I disbelieve in God. But for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to admit you cannot prove, or know a negative. Technically we can’t “know” anything, though I don’t lose sleep over that. So as such, again for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to say I’m a agnostic technically, but socially (for all intense and purposes) an atheist.

After all, it’s only mostly us that would bother to make the distinctions of a 6.99999…agnostic. Non-atheist and non-agnostics, at best, only understand a) you don’t believe in God, and b) you are not sure if God exist.

MATH POWERS ACTIVATE!

Actually, 6.9999.... with infinite repetition of the 9 is exactly the same number as 7.

MATH MAN AWAY!

EDIT: I'm an ignostic who trends atheist for most conceptions of God etc. Where does that fall on the Dawkins scale?

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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23-07-2013, 11:42 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Seems like there remains a separation of atheism based on one of two definitions used. Either:
1) atheism = the lack of belief in a god(s)
or
2) atheism = the belief that a god(s) do not exist

I don't see the difference between the 2 definitions anymore, although I would have vehemently argued for the former definition and can probably find posts by me on this forum for exactly that. The point is, if you lack a belief in the existence of something, do you maintain a belief it exists or does not exist? Meaning that definition 1 is the same as 2.

Now, asking about whether one knows of the existence or non-existence is different.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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