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Are you really an atheist? - Poll now added!
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23-07-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 11:42 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 11:34 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Basically your question is the same as the point of your name, 6.9 Agnostic. I myself am technically a 6.9999....(9s repeating at infinite) agnostic.

That is to say I hate the term atheist, because it’s a non-think and should not be a word. But for practical intense and purposes and socially I am an atheist. I don’t not believe in God, I disbelieve in God. But for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to admit you cannot prove, or know a negative. Technically we can’t “know” anything, though I don’t lose sleep over that. So as such, again for the sake of intellectual honesty I have to say I’m a agnostic technically, but socially (for all intense and purposes) an atheist.

After all, it’s only mostly us that would bother to make the distinctions of a 6.99999…agnostic. Non-atheist and non-agnostics, at best, only understand a) you don’t believe in God, and b) you are not sure if God exist.

MATH POWERS ACTIVATE!

Actually, 6.9999.... with infinite repetition of the 9 is exactly the same number as 7.

MATH MAN AWAY!

Yeah, that's kind of the idea though, isn't it? It's just a technicality. Do you watch Numberphile on Youtube?

...
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23-07-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 11:42 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  MATH POWERS ACTIVATE!

Actually, 6.9999.... with infinite repetition of the 9 is exactly the same number as 7.

MATH MAN AWAY!

Weeeeell... - the one is a natural number, and the other is a converging infinite series. They're not so much equal as equivalent.

... this is my signature!
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23-07-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
I'm an atheist agnostic. I'm not sure if atheists really exist. Confused
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23-07-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
I guess. . . I'm not as concerned as some of you are, because I'm not the one with stories of relatives and friends being toxic for a deity.
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23-07-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
I'm an atheist in the context of what I believe, an agnostic in the context of what I believe I can prove. I am fully persuaded that Christianity is false, provably false by its own standard (the Bible). As for whether there's someone out there who can be defined as a transcendent God, I do not know with 100% certainty. If there is such a being, he is not represented by any major religion.
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23-07-2013, 12:34 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
I don't think I consider agnostic and atheist to be on the same scale. I consider myself an agnostic since it is nearly impossible to prove a negative. The conclusion I've come to with what accumulated knowledge I have is I'm an atheist.
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23-07-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 10:21 AM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  Personally, I consider myself to be agnostic, and an anti-theist. I don't think there's anything wrong with being agnostic, even though this is the thinking atheist website!

Agnostics are atheists.

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23-07-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Bunch of pansy-assed fence-sitters playing the moderates. Dodgy

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23-07-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 11:52 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 11:42 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  MATH POWERS ACTIVATE!

Actually, 6.9999.... with infinite repetition of the 9 is exactly the same number as 7.

MATH MAN AWAY!

Weeeeell... - the one is a natural number, and the other is a converging infinite series. They're not so much equal as equivalent.

Pedantic OT maths follow! Liberal arts majors, avert your eyes!

In the real numbers, a real number is defined as any value that a converging infinite series (usually identified by virtue of being Cauchy, or being monotonic and bound in the direction of its monotonicity) might converge to. And if two different series converge to each other, then definitionally they both converge to the same real number, rather than to two different real numbers that happen to be a distance of 0 apart.

... actually, there's something like a half dozen DIFFERENT sets of axioms that serve to define the reals. But they're all EQUIVALENT, which for axioms means that they all produce the same results and each set of axioms can demonstrate all the other sets as theorems of itself, so no one's fussing over which one's the "right" set of axioms or the "true" definition. We're talking about the reals as being defined as the completion of the rationals. But another set of axioms doesn't exactly use a convergent series, but rather limits suprema, with every real number actually corresponding to the collection of every value less than the limit suprema of an upwardly bound set of rational numbers. A third set is much the same, but based on limits infinitum of sets with lower bounds. A fourth set of axioms simply states that a real number is the result of any well-defined function or operation, defined on the rationals and given specific parameters, that can be approximated to some rational number with arbitrary precision.

In any case, 6.999999........ (dammit, how do I superscript a bar in this format?) is equal to 7.00000000000..... in the rules about real numbers. You can say that this is equivalent the natural number 7, and this is true enough in that you can take a subset of the reals corresponding to the naturals and construct an isomorphism of this to the naturals for every operation defined on the naturals. But it is ALSO equal to 7, because the reals are defined as being an extension of the rationals, which are in turn an extension of the integers, which are in turn an extension of the naturals. This means that all those other sets that the reals are directly or indirectly based on are actually subsets of the reals. Therefore, the real number 7.0000000000.... is not only equivalent to the natural number 7, because the natural number 7 is in the reals. It must also equal 7.000.... by the rules of real numbers. And by the transitivity of equality, if 7 = 7.00000... = 6.99999.... then 7=6.9999....

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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23-07-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
I'm a Korean American free-thinker. But above all, I'm just an average human being. What's my religion? I have none. What do I believe then? Whatever my logic leads me to believe.

Am I an Atheist? If you must use a descriptive word, Atheism does relate... but what's the word for not believing in unicorns?

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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