Poll: Which 'label' best describes you?
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Are you really an atheist? - Poll now added!
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23-07-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 12:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...There is no coherent definition of the word "god", that I've ever seen.
Until someone can cook one up, I'm not going to waste my time discussing the subject.

Yeah, let's waste our time discussing that!

In short I've always felt the second God is real he ceases to be God. Unless you mean god along the lines of what the Greeks meant. But then all you’re saying is that a god is a creature that is way more powerful than us. Which means we could be gods to most flora and fauna.

But what we think of God is the all and everything, all powerful guy. The second that guy is real then he is no longer all everything or all powerful, but a thing within the universe and a part of it. At best it brings God down to being a god, more the way the Greeks thought of it.

Even if it’s more possible for the Greek idea of god to exist, in which god is just some other thing in the universe mucking around, that doesn’t leave a possibility for a God God. It really is an impossible concept by the very nature of the concept itself.

...
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23-07-2013, 01:25 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 12:39 PM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 12:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Agnostics are atheists.

What definitions are you using to assert this?

Logica is correct
Agnostics are Atheists

If you don't have a belief in gods you are an atheist and agnostics don't have a belief in gods.
Saying "You don't know" doesn't change anything.
You cannot NOT know if you have a belief in something or not.

Agnostics are saying "I don't know if I believe in gods or not. I don't have access to my own beliefs in my brain. I have no idea what I believe on any topics at all. I don't know if I believe in unicorns, I don't know if I believe the moon is made of cheese. I simply don't know any of my beliefs. I don't even know if I have beliefs"

Agnostics are Atheists. They just don't like to take a stance and say what side of the fence they are on. Saying publicly they don't know is a softer stance and not as scary to the believers.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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23-07-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 01:00 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 12:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm an apathetic igtheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism
There is no coherent definition of the word "god", that I've ever seen.
Until someone can cook one up, I'm not going to waste my time discussing the subject.

That's it. Make up words so you can feel special. Dodgy

Watch it bub. Your girlfriend, Kimmy taught me what I really was.
Take it up with her.
Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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23-07-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 01:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 12:39 PM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  What definitions are you using to assert this?

Logica is correct
Agnostics are Atheists

If you don't have a belief in gods you are an atheist and agnostics don't have a belief in gods.
Saying "You don't know" doesn't change anything.
You cannot NOT know if you have a belief in something or not.

Agnostics are saying "I don't know if I believe in gods or not. I don't have access to my own beliefs in my brain. I have no idea what I believe on any topics at all. I don't know if I believe in unicorns, I don't know if I believe the moon is made of cheese. I simply don't know any of my beliefs. I don't even know if I have beliefs"

Agnostics are Atheists. They just don't like to take a stance and say what side of the fence they are on. Saying publicly they don't know is a softer stance and not as scary to the believers.

Unless you are on the "Dawkins' Scale" of believing it is exactly equally likely there is a God as if there isn't. But who is that person?

...
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23-07-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
Theism is belief in gods, atheism is non-belief. You can say you are a strong atheist, an agnostic atheist, or you were born on a remote island and never heard of the concept of gods before; it makes no difference. Whether or not you believe in some sort of god is a yes or no question. If no, you are an atheist.

Now, for a definition of "god"; I use it to refer to a supernatural creator of either the universe, earth, life, or humans. It can be a human-like being, an undefined "intelligence", or whatever. Doesn't matter. If it is supernatural and created something, directly or indirectly, it is a god.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

[Image: ZcC2kGl.png]
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23-07-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
In English, the use of "a" before a term means "absence of".
A-symptomiatic : absence of symptoms
A-theism : absence of theism

Without a qualifier, it means nothing further.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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23-07-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 01:03 PM)eksyte Wrote:  To me, the primary difference between someone who identifies as an agnostic and someone who calls them self an atheist isn't what they believe; it's how much they're willing to argue about what they believe. I think most of us agree that agnostics and atheists believe essentially the same thing since neither believe in god. Just like the average atheist, most agnostics hold evolutionary theory and the Big Bang theory as true, but atheists tend to understand these theories more thoroughly and they're more willing to argue about them with theists. If this isn't true, how often to we hear of agnostics arguing the "unknowable-ness" of god with any distinction between the arguments atheists tend to make?

As for the topic at hand: I consider myself 99.99% atheist and .01% deist. The only possible god I can imagine is one which doesn't involve itself in how the universe operates or the lives humans and other Earthly beings. The Christian god is demonstrably bullshit (since the Buybull contradicts itself and reality), and I don't really see the gods of other religions being viable, either.

I agree with this a lot. However, to mention Richard Dawkins again, he describes himself as agnostic, but is certainly able and willing to argue with theists about these theories! Although, he has also said he would no longer have a debate with a creationist, as to argue with them on a platform, would seem to give their ideas legitimacy. You can hear him talk about it here Chapter 19. Q10 he posed, "If you were a geographer, agree to have a debate with a flat earther?

I would never describe myself as a "Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.", but as an "agnostic, anti-theist" or as an "agnostic-atheist". I suppose I could say I'm an "agnostic-atheist anti-theist", but I think that is too long!
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23-07-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
The most important part of the compound word "supernatural" is natural. The most important part of the compound word "paranormal" is normal. All things have a completely normal, perfectly natural, scientific explanation whether we've discovered that explanation or not!
The laws of physics break down in, or do not apply to, the center of a black hole? Uhhh,......the ones we've come up with so far sure, but there must be a larger law that is being obeyed by the singularity that we simply haven't discovered, or figured out yet!
The closest I'll get to the whole, "I don't know for sure there are no gods or goddesses that exist, & therefore must concede that they could" thing, is...
Should we ever, somehow, come into contact with an extraterrestrial species that have had many millions, or possibly even billions, more years of evolution than we have, then we (mere apes) might percieve such a creature as god-like! That's as close as I'll get!! (not that we have already!! Ancient alien theorists can go hop up & down on a screwdriver)

But an entity that exists outside of ANY natural law? Even better
One that also created everything that exists (other than itself), and the laws that govern over all those universes (except the pocket of existence ...or whatever...where it lives) ? ....duhhheerrr, is it named George Hobo
Pure atheist in that respect, I guess!

Then again....if I went downstairs to get a loaf of bread out of the freezer, and was confronted with this...
[Image: 1554_2096451093.jpg]
...instead of standing my ground repeating "this isn't real this isn't real", I'd probably flee....and then sell my home Dodgy *shrugs*

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23-07-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
(23-07-2013 01:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 12:39 PM)6.9 Agnostic Wrote:  What definitions are you using to assert this?

Logica is correct
Agnostics are Atheists

If you don't have a belief in gods you are an atheist and agnostics don't have a belief in gods.
Saying "You don't know" doesn't change anything.
You cannot NOT know if you have a belief in something or not.

Agnostics are saying "I don't know if I believe in gods or not. I don't have access to my own beliefs in my brain. I have no idea what I believe on any topics at all. I don't know if I believe in unicorns, I don't know if I believe the moon is made of cheese. I simply don't know any of my beliefs. I don't even know if I have beliefs"

Agnostics are Atheists. They just don't like to take a stance and say what side of the fence they are on. Saying publicly they don't know is a softer stance and not as scary to the believers.

To use the moon is made of cheese is a bad example, as samples of moon rock have been collected and brought back to earth, although, you reminded me of the time when Google Moon had an image of cheese when zoomed in!

You've sad, "If you don't have a belief in gods you are an atheist" but that's only in the broader sense, in the narrower sense, an atheist would say, "there are no deities" and while I'm almost certain this is the case, on a scale of 1 to 7, I am not at 7.
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23-07-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Are you really an atheist?
"Skepticism is my Nature, Free thought is my Ideology, Agnosticism is my conclusion, Atheism is my opinion and opinions are always subject to change."
-Jerry Dewitt

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