Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
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22-05-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012 07:11 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
This is probably one of the most intriguing UFO conspiracies ever since the Roswell Incident. It's the story that brought the government's infamous Area 51 flight test facility at Groom Dry Lake, Nevada into the spotlight and UFO lore.

In 1989, a George Knapp, a reporter for KLAS TV in Las Vegas, NV was approached by a man named Robert Lazar, who claimed to have been a physicist hired by the United States Government to reverse engineer extra-terrestrial spacecraft out at a secure facility in the Nevada desert, northwest of Las Vegas.

The story told by Lazar is one of the most detailed, and arguably believable, tales about UFOs and ETs. He claimed that the saucers were kept at a secure facility called S4, which is located 15 or so miles southwest of Groom Dry Lake. Lazar said he was hired on to help reverse engineer the propulsion systems on a particular ET craft he dubbed 'The Sport Model' due to its sleek lines. These ET craft, supposed to have been built by aliens in the Zeta Reticuli star system 38LY from Earth, use an exotic gravity based propulsion system. Power is provided by an anti-matter reactor in the ship's core, which is fed by an unearthly element which has a position of 115 on an Earth periodic table of elements. When bombarded by a particle accelerator, this produces an antimatter reaction, the energy from which is converted into electricity in a near 100% efficiency (violating the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics in the process). Element 115 also provides the source of 'Gravity A Waves' (what we call the Strong Nuclear Force), which are amplified and projected from the belly of the ship by 3 gravity amplifiers. The gravity wave from these amplifiers are powerful enough to distort space and time, allowing the craft to travel interstellar distances in very little time.

Well that's the tale Lazar spun. I don't believe it, mainly because it conflicts with so much of existing science, that it seems hardly possible. Also Lazar's background and education credentials are fishy. He claims to have degrees in engineering and physics from MIT - strange because no one at MIT has ever heard of him. He does seem like a smart guy, and has actually built jet and rocket powered cars in the past. Unfortunately this can't verify the rest of his claims. He also claims to have a quantity of Element 115 in his possession, but will never submit some for testing and evaluation. I think it's probably the best UFO story I have heard to date and very entertaining.

Watch the Lazar Tapes




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22-05-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
I read a bunch about this a couple years ago when I was into the UFO thing and other conspiracies (though Arctic would never believe me lol) and I came away with the general feeling of bullshit. Hey it might be true, but if it were don't you think the government might want to shut the guy up? It would be pretty easy to kill him too, considering how many explosives the guy works with.
I think he might just be a nutter with a high IQ. It happens. Einstein rarely combed his hair. Lunatic.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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23-05-2012, 02:01 AM
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
Quite interesting Consider

He sounds genuine but I suppose any 'wackadoodle' can sound sane.

As I'm no physicist it's over to Bucky and friends...is this physicologically possible?

It'd be so cool if it was true! Sleepy

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23-05-2012, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2012 03:26 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
(23-05-2012 02:01 AM)aurora Wrote:  Quite interesting Consider

He sounds genuine but I suppose any 'wackadoodle' can sound sane.

As I'm no physicist it's over to Bucky and friends...is this physicologically possible?

It'd be so cool if it was true! Sleepy


Unfortunately he IS a wackadoodle. This guy is SO full of shit, his eyes are brown. He is very adept at using many true things, and then driving the bus over the cliff, so ya almost don't notce at first, and, have to say "hey wait a second..back up here".

He has the two forces he calls "gravity-a", and "gravity-b". He fails to explain how or why he decided to call the Strong Nuclear Force, (or if ya live in Texas..the "nucular" force Tongue .. I await the drone strike..), "gravity-a", and does nothing to relate it to "gravity-b", (which they would have to be, if he were for real). He does sound all "sciency"...(the oscillocope wave demonstration bla bla bla), but really is full of crap. For example, (at 09:00), his statement that the clock taken to a high altitude runs at a different rate from one on the earth is due to the gravitational attraction on the clock by the earth. THAT is 100% false. It has to do with the relative SPEEDS of the clocks. So at his supposed education level, he misunderstands the basic nature of Relativity. It's NOT relative mass, it's relative SPEED. So from then on, ya just know it's all gonna be bullshit, and he's just trying to get away with something. No one, with his supposed background would ever say that, or make such a fundamental mistake. After that, it's all downhill. Uranium is NOT, in general, "manufactured", and they DON'T waste their time making it in particle accerators. First he says the power source is "gravity-a", then switches, and says it's anti-matter. He conveniently forgets to tell us how he knows "antimatter" is released in the reaction, or why THAT would be released, in THIS reaction, as opposed to lighter atomic energy releases. It's not "back engineering", it's "reverse" engineering. If gravity-a, were to be useful, in the presence of gravity-b, the way he describes, we would all be flying around, (due to the Strong Nuclear Force, in the presense of gravity). By the time he's done with all the BS, he thinks you have forgotten that he was supposed to be explaining how GRAVITY was harnessed for the travel, and never mentions it again. Oh well. He is a VERY accomplished LIAR. I can't decide if he is psychotic, or aware of his deception. There is proof of nothing, and he doesn't even attempt to explain how the reverse engineering was done. If he were for real, he would be breaking his oath. Why wasn't he prosecuted? Cuz he's lying. The last part of the tape contains the "hermitage fallacy". Science today is not done in isolation, anywhere. All scientists in a given field are well aware of what all the other scientists in their field are doing. The government has no "secret" knowledge.

His education has been impossible for anyone to verify. It's a hoax. Even if it were somehow to be kept "secret", some who went to school with him would be coming foreward.

He's just a grown up kid, who in his 4th Grade bedroom, made up a good science fiction story, and got some to believe it, cuz they don't know enough, (kinda like ze Pewp does).

Space travel, has been theoretically thought to be possible in the future, by harnessing gravity waves, but in no way, the way he describes. http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMLY2T1VED_index_0.html , by a force from his non-existent atoms, or by an unobserved force they produce.

He says he has the "proof" that he has a stable heavy atom, which produces his force, but will not produce it. Gimme a break. He would get the Nobel, if he showed it to the world. There is not a shred of evidence that the Strong Nuclear Force extends beyond the atom, and if that there true, it would be incrementally observed in increasing strengths, and not just pop out from HIS, (fantasy) atom. There is NO evidence of a "gravity-a" field, which is any different from the Strong Nuclear Force. Weeping

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23-05-2012, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012 09:17 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
(23-05-2012 02:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 02:01 AM)aurora Wrote:  Quite interesting Consider

He sounds genuine but I suppose any 'wackadoodle' can sound sane.

As I'm no physicist it's over to Bucky and friends...is this physicologically possible?

It'd be so cool if it was true! Sleepy


Unfortunately he IS a wackadoodle. This guy os SO full of shit, his eyes are brown. He is very adept at using many true things, and then driving the bus over the cliff, so ya almost don't notce at first, and, have to say "hey wait a second..back up here".

He has the two forces he calls "gravity-a", and "gravity-b". He fails to explain how or why he decided to call the Strong Nuclear Force, (or if ya live in Texas..the "nucular" force Tongue .. I await the drone strike..), "gravity-a", and does nothing to relate it to "gravity-b", (which they would have to be, if he were for real). He does sound all "sciency"...(the oscillocope wave demonstration bla bla bla), but really is full of crap. For example, (at 09:00), his statement that the clock taken to a high altitude runs at a different rate from one on the earth is due to the gravitational attraction on the clock by the earth. THAT is 100% false. It has to do with the relative SPEEDS of the clocks. So at his supposed education level, he misunderstands the basic nature of Relativity. It's NOT relative mass, it's relative SPEED. So from then on, ya just know it's all gonna be bullshit, and he's just trying to get away with something. No one, with his supposed background would ever say that, or make such a fundamental mistake. After that, it's all downhill. Uranium is NOT, in general, "manufactured", and they DON'T waste their time making it in particle accerators. First he says the power source is "gravity-a", then switches, and says it's anti-matter. He conveniently forgets to tell us how he knows "antimatter" is released in the reaction, or why THAT would be released, in THIS reaction, as opposed to lighter atomic energy releases. It's not "back engineering", it's "reverse" engineering. If gravity-a, were to be useful, in the presence of gravity-b, the way he describes, we would all be flying around, (due to the Strong Nuclear Force, in the presense of gravity). By the time he's done with all the BS, he thinks you have forgotten that he was supposed to be explaining how GRAVITY was harnessed for the travel, and never mentions it again. Oh well. He is a VERY accomplished LIAR. I can't decide if he is psychotic, or aware of his deception. There is proof of nothing, and he doesn't even attempt to explain how the reverse engineering was done. If he were for real, he would be breaking his oath. Why wasn't he prosecuted? Cuz he's lying. The last part of the tape contains the "hermitage fallacy". Science today is not done in isolation, anywhere. All scientists in a given field are well aware of what all the other scientists in their field are doing. The government has no "secret" knowledge.

His education has been impossible for anyone to verify. It's a hoax. Even if it were somehow to be kept "secret", some who went to school with him would be coming foreward.

He's just a grown up kid, who in his 4th Grade bedroom, made up a good science fiction story, and got some to believe it, cuz they don't know enough, (kinda like ze Pewp does).

Space travel, has been theoretically been thought to be possible in the future, by harnessing gravity waves, but in no way, the way he describes. http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMLY2T1VED_index_0.html , by a force from his non-existent atoms, or by an unobserved force they produce.

He says he has the "proof" that he has a stable heavy atom, which produces his force, but will not produce it. Gimme a break. He would get the Nobel, if he showed it to the world. There is not a shred of evidence that the Strong Nuclear Force extends beyond the atom, and if that there true, it would be incrementally observed in increasing strengths, and not just pop out from HIS, (fantasy) atom. There is NO evidence of a "gravity-a" field, which is any different from the Strong Nuclear Force. Weeping
Here's an exhaustive scientific analysis about Lazar's claims

http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Lazar_24.pdf

A detailed study of Element 115 here as well
http://www.alienscientist.com/boblazar.html


My primary criticisms of Lazar are:

1) As you pointed out, he should build and demonstrate one of these antimatter reactors using the Element 115 he claims to have, collect his Nobel Prize in Chemistry and Physics and retire as a Billionaire, after providing the human race with a quantum leap in energy production and transportation technology.

2) Lazar claims that humans do not fully understand gravity and the gravity and electromagnetic waves are one in the same (they are not; if it were true, a tugboat could pull a supertanker using a mere radio transmitter.). In Reticulan science, the strong nuclear force is phase shifted into normal gravity once it's projected out of the nucleus of the atom.

3) Lazar has brought his claims to light in 1989 when Element 115 had not yet been synthesized by scientists. Today it has. Element 115 Uup has a half life of only about 100us, making its use as a stable fuel impractical. Also Element 115 does not have any unusual gravity or strong nuclear force properties associated with it, as Lazar claims.

4) An antimatter reactor powered by the reaction

Element 115 + 2P -> Element 116 + P

Decaying to

Element 115 + anti P + P -> Element 115 + Energy

Violates the First Law of Thermodynamics. The same amount of energy required to accelerate the proton is equal the the energy output from the antimatter reaction. Energy is conserved. In addition it is physically impossible to convert 100% of the energy into electricity in a thermoelectric generator - See the 2nd Law of Theromdynamics.

5) Even if you could build such a craft capable of this gravitational energy output, It still can't overcome the relativistic speed limits imposed by light. Gravity distortions (and electromagnetic waves) can only travel through space time at the speed of light, so any distortion you create can only propagate through space at the speed of light, making interstellar and intergalactic space travel by these means still impractical.


6) The high security and secrecy supposed to surround ET craft in the custody of the US Government makes the claim susceptible to Occam's Razor i.e. what's the difference between a UFO that's so secret and so vehemently denied by government and scientific authorities and no UFO at all? Lazar claims to have Element 115 in his possession but won't submit samples for examination and verification. Lazaer takes friends out to Area 51 at night to show them a test flight of an ET craft and are caught by the guards there and expelled (one has to ponder why, if this is so classified, the entire party wasn't shot on site and the whole thing never came to light). Also why would an ET craft be such a big secret. I could see a weapons development program based on alien tech receiving a TSCI classification, but the fact that an alien craft crashed and was recovered shows no reason to shroud it in secrecy. While the flight test facility at Area 51 is a real complex in south central Nevada, I can find no evidence of human activity near the Papoose Dry Lake Bed where the Area S4 complex supposedly was. You can see satellite photos of both locations on Google Earth. Papoose Dry Lake bed and surrounding hills show absolutely no signs of human activity while Area 51 sat photos show a sprawling complex of buildings and hangars plus two parallel 15,000 ft long runways for test flying aircraft - details are as sharp as being able to clearly identify cryo storage tanks, an electrical substation, and a pair of F-16 fighters parked on the north end of the ramp at Area 51. Just desert scrub out at Papoose lake.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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23-05-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
Thank you Bucky and Carlo! Smile

I will read the links you provided, Carlo, when I get home tonight from work.

What I don't understand is why he thought he would've been taken seriously when there are so many super-intelligent physicists out there that would debunk his theories/story. It really doesn't make any sense but I suppose that's why he's a wackadoodle!

BTW, I grasp the concept of what you guys are saying but, of course, don't fully understand it and for that reason I am green with envy.

I bow to you both Bowing

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30-05-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: Area S4, Bob Lazar and 'The Sport Model'
One final though for this thread.

Similar to the ambiguity left by Dr. Arrowway's voice recorder in the film Contact.

Lazar claimed that the aliens were from Zeta Reticuli, a star system 38 light years from Earth. The first transatlantic radio signals were sent in 1901 and some in 1903 with the power to leave the ionosphere and go into space. 38 years later, in 1941, the first widespread sightings of UFOs were encountered. Called Foo Fighters by Allied pilots (yes, this is where the alternative band got its name from), they were often seen flying in formation with Allied fighter aircraft, but were harmless otherwise.

Were these just sightings of naturally occurring phenomena such as clouds or ball lightning?

Or did the Reticulans hear an ancient signal for our section of the cosmos and come looking?

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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