Arguing For Gay Marriage
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27-10-2012, 11:48 PM
Arguing For Gay Marriage
I recently uploaded a video on YouTube that I thought could be useful for winning debates on gay marriage, which (as I mention in the video) is important for states like mine where this issue is getting voted on.





Basically, if you're arguing against someone who thinks we should "protect marriage" or against someone who thinks that gay marriage is evil, remind them that the alternative is gay unwed cohabitation, not gay abstinence.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-10-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
Gay sex was once illegal in the US?
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28-10-2012, 12:42 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
Or just remind them that marriage had been going on prior to religion and all around the world in many many different cultures and while marriage might be something special to them in a religious sense, it's doesn't BELONG to them and hence fuck off let the gays have their marriage.

On a side note, I think a church should have the right to marry someone or not. So if it's against a religion to marry gays I don't think they should have to marry gays.

BUT the state isn't a religion (in the traditional sense) and hence, back to the original point of let the gays have their stupid marriage ffs and be done with the whole "issue".

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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28-10-2012, 10:04 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
(28-10-2012 12:42 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Or just remind them that marriage had been going on prior to religion and all around the world in many many different cultures and while marriage might be something special to them in a religious sense, it's doesn't BELONG to them and hence fuck off let the gays have their marriage.

On a side note, I think a church should have the right to marry someone or not. So if it's against a religion to marry gays I don't think they should have to marry gays.

BUT the state isn't a religion (in the traditional sense) and hence, back to the original point of let the gays have their stupid marriage ffs and be done with the whole "issue".

There are many, many lines of attack against this idiotic belief that gay marriage is "wrong", but I chose one that assumes that their views of gay sex as evil and the inferiority of unwed couples compared to married couples are both true. I obviously am not won over by my own argument because I don't believe the premise that either of these states of being are "evil", therefore one is not "less evil" than another... but it's a good argument to try out against someone who does see things that way. To deny the premises, they have to deny their own wrong stances on the value of marriage or evils of gay sex (as we would).

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-10-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
(28-10-2012 12:34 AM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Gay sex was once illegal in the US?

It varies from state to state. I live in Maine, where gay marriage is illegal and gay couples from other states are not legally recognized as married. Gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts, California, and New York... as far as I know, just those 3 states out of 50.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-10-2012, 10:20 AM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2012 06:24 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
In a Democratic Republic, the right to marry or not marry anyone, of one's choice is an inalienable right.
The contract of "marriage" is a "legal" right in terms of *how* the civil contract is set up. It's an "inalienable right", or "natural right", to partner with the person of one 's choice.

Inalienable rights are not put up for votes, in a Democratic Republic. The Founders set up this system to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. There has never been, nor ever will be a vote on the right of opposite-sex couples to marry. Thus it's discrimination, a priori. The entire bullshit of putting this issue "up to a vote" is ignorance of the fundamental nature of the US system of government, and law.

All the arguments against are :
a. either religious, thus irrelevant, as they do not have the right to enshrine their religious views into law,
b. "protection of the children". There is not one study supporting this position.
c. the "natural law" argument, which has been proven wrong by science.

It's inevitable ANY discrimination, will be struck down, by the courts, just as Loving v Virginia was. There is no "compelling state interest" here, just as in the mixed racial marriage case.

At the end of Prop 8, the judge, (Walker), asked the plaintiff's attorney "how exactly does same-sex marriage threaten traditional marriage". He replied, "I don't know judge, I don't know".

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28-10-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
(28-10-2012 12:34 AM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Gay sex was once illegal in the US?

Gay sex was once illegal most everywhere in the world...

The mere idea of anyone, least of all the state, telling you what you should and shouldn't do in your bedroom, with a consenting and adult partner is still beyond my meagre comprehension.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-10-2012, 10:49 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
sorry but need to mention: I read the topic as "Arguing for Marzipan"

Now ontopic: Isn't it sad that we actually need to argue for this? Isn't it sad that being gay and wanting to marry each other is so special and so freaky and so looked down on, that we really need to have good arguments for it? You know, this makes me sad over and over again, and I am starting to get angry that in times like this, "modern times" we have to fucking argue wether or not two people who love each other may or may not marry. What the hell is that? Why is it politics business who you love and marry? As long as they are consenting adults....
I better stop now.

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28-10-2012, 10:53 AM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
(28-10-2012 10:49 AM)Leela Wrote:  sorry but need to mention: I read the topic as "Arguing for Marzipan"

Now ontopic: Isn't it sad that we actually need to argue for this? Isn't it sad that being gay and wanting to marry each other is so special and so freaky and so looked down on, that we really need to have good arguments for it? You know, this makes me sad over and over again, and I am starting to get angry that in times like this, "modern times" we have to fucking argue wether or not two people who love each other may or may not marry. What the hell is that? Why is it politics business who you love and marry? As long as they are consenting adults....
I better stop now.

Yep, makes me mad as hell, too... at least nowadays (and in some countries) they don't throw gay people in prison or subject them to chemical castration anymore (http:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_turing), thank... well, thank someone for small blessings, eh? No

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-10-2012, 05:21 PM
RE: Arguing For Gay Marriage
Yeah, I think that's a good point to make. I wonder if anti-gay-marriagers think somehow gay people will stop being gay if you don't let them marry, or something?

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Most people against it still use the above argument to me, I've found. They can never seem to explain to me what they are protecting marriage from, exactly. How does it personally hurt their marriage, etc. So all I figure is (1) they're bigots hiding behind religion, and (2) They erroneously think their religion somehow owns the concept of marriage. Also they're against "redefining marriage," but it's already been redefined...

Every time I mention gay marriage to some, though, they tune me out and rant about how they "hate the sin, not the sinner," so apparently letting gays marry would be legitimatizing what they view as a "sin," therefore they are against it. Even if it were a "sin," they seem to be unaware that not everyone has the same views on it as they do, and also that not everyone follows their religion so not everyone should be subjected their "religious laws."

I usually just end up calling them perverts for being so obsessed with other people's sex lives.
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