Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
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06-03-2013, 08:57 PM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
(06-03-2013 03:45 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  They just came to our door...told them I couldn't talk to them, as I was late for my blood transfusion.

Tongue

I usually tell them I'm disfellowshipped, which I am. Gladly.

Or I sick my hubby on them to discuss "bible truths". I like to see others being occupied to the point of stir-craziness.

Jesus loves you, but the Devil gives you cool shit.
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07-03-2013, 01:27 AM
Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
I just open the door completely naked.
Lol! Nah! I'm joking.

Is usually some old lady and I thank her for her effort to make things better but i tell them I'm pretty sure I don't want to belong to their community because we are an atheist household.

No need to bully them.

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07-03-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
Have you tried using them as a sacrifice to the sun? You do it once you never see them again.

The aztecs did that and you never hear about witnesses chapping on their doors.

Behold the power of the force!
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07-03-2013, 05:03 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
(06-03-2013 06:06 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  You do realize this now means you are on their "List"?
Is there a reason for me to be worried about that? Consider

(07-03-2013 04:56 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Have you tried using them as a sacrifice to the sun? You do it once you never see them again.

The aztecs did that and you never hear about witnesses chapping on their doors.
That's probably because they have no doors to begin with.

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07-03-2013, 06:25 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
I think vosur has came up with a solution to the witness problem. Remove the door and the doorbell. Genius Big Grin

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07-03-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
(06-03-2013 02:12 AM)riseinside Wrote:  So I have had this Jehovah Witness stop by a few times and he has brought along an interesting cast of people each time. Currently my favorite is the one he has brought along the last 2 times. Despite disagreeing vehemently I have found them to be pleasant to talk to and so far have found no reason for them not to come back.

Anyway, up to this point we have mostly discusses philosophy but the last 2 visits have started to veer off into science and what the bible does and does not prove. Today they brought up a verse that talks about the earth being spherical and hinting at being suspended in space. They say that the only way to know this was from the creator as nobody had discovered this fact at that time. How do I argue against this? Obviously I know that the writer of the books of the bible did not have insight from the creation of the universe. I know this. But how do you argue this with a Jehovah Witness?

I also need ideas on different arguments and discussions I should bring up the next time they stop by. I've made it clear where I stand and that they are not going to convert me. I've made it known that I am an atheist and that I find them pleasant but I do not want to waste their time. However, I also don't have many people stopping by and its nice to have the social interaction. I need some talking points though.

Funny you should mention that. Met a nice lady from the KHJW who dropped off a leaflet at my door. Don't think she will be back as I was wearing my 'I Have A Personal Relationship With Reality' T Shirt and was holding back a 100+ pound German Shepherd who was barking and snapping his teeth. None of that was intentional; she just happened to show up when the dog was hungry and when I was wearing the T shirt.

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07-03-2013, 01:39 PM
Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
(07-03-2013 11:10 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(06-03-2013 02:12 AM)riseinside Wrote:  So I have had this Jehovah Witness stop by a few times and he has brought along an interesting cast of people each time. Currently my favorite is the one he has brought along the last 2 times. Despite disagreeing vehemently I have found them to be pleasant to talk to and so far have found no reason for them not to come back.

Anyway, up to this point we have mostly discusses philosophy but the last 2 visits have started to veer off into science and what the bible does and does not prove. Today they brought up a verse that talks about the earth being spherical and hinting at being suspended in space. They say that the only way to know this was from the creator as nobody had discovered this fact at that time. How do I argue against this? Obviously I know that the writer of the books of the bible did not have insight from the creation of the universe. I know this. But how do you argue this with a Jehovah Witness?

I also need ideas on different arguments and discussions I should bring up the next time they stop by. I've made it clear where I stand and that they are not going to convert me. I've made it known that I am an atheist and that I find them pleasant but I do not want to waste their time. However, I also don't have many people stopping by and its nice to have the social interaction. I need some talking points though.

Funny you should mention that. Met a nice lady from the KHJW who dropped off a leaflet at my door. Don't think she will be back as I was wearing my 'I Have A Personal Relationship With Reality' T Shirt and was holding back a 100+ pound German Shepherd who was barking and snapping his teeth. None of that was intentional; she just happened to show up when the dog was hungry and when I was wearing the T shirt.

Were you wearing anything other than the shirt? If not, think a bit more...

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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13-03-2013, 05:44 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
(07-03-2013 11:10 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(06-03-2013 02:12 AM)riseinside Wrote:  So I have had this Jehovah Witness stop by a few times and he has brought along an interesting cast of people each time. Currently my favorite is the one he has brought along the last 2 times. Despite disagreeing vehemently I have found them to be pleasant to talk to and so far have found no reason for them not to come back.

Anyway, up to this point we have mostly discusses philosophy but the last 2 visits have started to veer off into science and what the bible does and does not prove. Today they brought up a verse that talks about the earth being spherical and hinting at being suspended in space. They say that the only way to know this was from the creator as nobody had discovered this fact at that time. How do I argue against this? Obviously I know that the writer of the books of the bible did not have insight from the creation of the universe. I know this. But how do you argue this with a Jehovah Witness?

I also need ideas on different arguments and discussions I should bring up the next time they stop by. I've made it clear where I stand and that they are not going to convert me. I've made it known that I am an atheist and that I find them pleasant but I do not want to waste their time. However, I also don't have many people stopping by and its nice to have the social interaction. I need some talking points though.

Funny you should mention that. Met a nice lady from the KHJW who dropped off a leaflet at my door. Don't think she will be back as I was wearing my 'I Have A Personal Relationship With Reality' T Shirt and was holding back a 100+ pound German Shepherd who was barking and snapping his teeth. None of that was intentional; she just happened to show up when the dog was hungry and when I was wearing the T shirt.
My dog happens to be about the most friendly dog you will find. They all have actually fell in love with him and he loves the attention lol.

This would be so much easier if they weren't friendly and interesting to talk to. And now one of the guys that has been stopping by seems to 'understand' where I am coming from. Its a great tactic. Ill say something to the first guy that stopped by and the other will jump in and say that he fully understands. Then gently trying to push me in the 'right' direction. It would be effective, and I am sure it often is, if I didn't fully realize what it was they were doing. Its entertaining really.

I did ask him about the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his child. They said that yes, god did ask him to do this but he did not allow it in the end. Like this somehow made it alright. I told them that I would not want to follow a god, if he existed, that would ask that of his followers. They said that it was taken out of context. Which I then explained that there is absolutely no context that would make this ok. And I brought up the recent school shooting. They say its all part of a big grand plan, throw in something about free will and that we cannot fully comprehend what god is doing. I said this was also something I could not look past. That this god, who has the capability to stop this violence, would allow his 'children' to face such a tragic end. He can stop it but doesn't. No amount of explaining will make this ok.

Its funny that I can show them something the bible says, such as stoning adulterers, and they will simply say that its being taken out of context. Or just move on. Like that makes it alright.

Also, when shown inconsistencies in the bible they say the bible was written by man. Then call it the word of god. But god is perfect. So therefore it is either not the word of god or god is not perfect. I haven't gotten much of an answer on that one.

This last visit was likely my favorite. Every time I would dispute something the original JW would bring out his bible and show me evidence supporting his view. I finally said you cannot prove the validity of the bible with the bible. It doesn't work like that. Its like having a scientific study that says the earth is really in the shape of the triangle. When somebody disagrees you then pull out the study and support your argument with the study. Well of course the study will support the argument. That's why it was created in the first place. I told him that in no other area of our lives would we allow that sort of evidence. Guy #2 who understands me said he fully understood that argument. Then showed me a verse telling me why I was wrong.

I know that I will not change their belief. They will not change mine. Yet if I tell them I will not change my non belief I am being stubborn and unwilling to look at the evidence and keep an open mind. And they still won't take any of my books. But I have a small JW library. And a DVD.
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03-05-2013, 06:31 AM
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
Quote:I know that I will not change their belief. They will not change mine. Yet if I tell them I will not change my non belief I am being stubborn and unwilling to look at the evidence and keep an open mind. And they still won't take any of my books. But I have a small JW library. And a DVD.


You never know when something you might say to a religious person will click with them later and all of a sudden pull a pillar out of their worldview. If they are the slightest bit logically inclined, their entire belief structure will come tumbling down.

While it wasn't a person's comment, for me, my loss of faith ultimately happened in a single day, with one epiphany.
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09-05-2013, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 05:59 PM by Scully.)
RE: Arguing With Jehovah Witnesses
One of my favorite questions to pose to JWs has to deal with Jesus' conception.

First, I get them to agree that Mary was betrothed to Joseph when the angel Gabriel gave her the "good news" of her impending blessed event.

Secondly, I ask them: "how exactly did the conception take place?" Their usual answer is that Jehovah/God made it happen through the power of the holy spirit.

Third, I remind them that Mary and Joseph were under Jewish Law, whereby an engaged woman becoming pregnant by someone other than her betrothed would be guilty of adultery, as would the individual who fathered the unborn child. It would also merit a death sentence for Mary and Joseph to engage in premarital sex.

So then, god disregarded his own laws, committed adultery with an engaged virgin (i.e., someone else's "property") and got her pregnant. And Joseph was eventually convinced that it was okay. When they can figure this out without the usual knee-jerk response of "well, god is god and he can do whatever he wants to make his will take place" etc., then we'll talk some more.

Needless to say, they have nothing in the way of a real answer. FWIW, the "real" answer IMO would be that Mary and Joseph were the natural parents of Jesus, and the whole angel Gabriel thing was an elaborate hoax to avoid execution for having premarital sex. That is, if the story has any basis in fact at all, which I find totally non-plausible anyway.

. . . all the gods were stories we told the children to make them behave. ~ Thoros of Myr (Game of Thrones, Episode 3:06)
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