Argument I don't understand
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29-10-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(29-10-2014 01:21 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The bags of groceries showed on their porch without either of the couple soliciting aid from anyone else. This occurred twice. That would be a minor miracle. Major ones are around as well...

Really? That is the best you got!? Nobody in the church group new this person's situation? Come on - humans in that cult mindset cannot even do something nice without making sure to disguise the gesture as "a miracle" and give god all the credit. Pathetic bunch of gullible sheep. Think man, think for yourself!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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29-10-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(29-10-2014 01:21 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The bags of groceries showed on their porch without either of the couple soliciting aid from anyone else. This occurred twice. That would be a minor miracle. Major ones are around as well...

Bags of groceries showing up on a needy person's porch when that need is know to a community doesn't come anywhere near the level of 'miracle'.

You lack critical thinking skills and are extremely credulous.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-10-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 10:09 AM)natachan Wrote:  The argument was: in nature there are certain patterns and numbers that keep appearing. This means god must be doing it.

I've never understood this argument. It seems nonsensical to me.

I think what this person making the argument is saying, that these patterns and numbers appear in such a way, as on intricate, that he believes it would require something like foresight, or intelligence to be the source of them.
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30-10-2014, 01:48 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(30-10-2014 01:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 10:09 AM)natachan Wrote:  The argument was: in nature there are certain patterns and numbers that keep appearing. This means god must be doing it.

I've never understood this argument. It seems nonsensical to me.

I think what this person making the argument is saying, that these patterns and numbers appear in such a way, as on intricate, that he believes it would require something like foresight, or intelligence to be the source of them.

Yes that part is understood.. the reason for believing it would require foresight is what is questionable and nonsensical.

Especially when you consider the way people input patterns on their own into situation.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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30-10-2014, 02:00 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(30-10-2014 01:48 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes that part is understood.. the reason for believing it would require foresight is what is questionable and nonsensical.

Especially when you consider the way people input patterns on their own into situation.

It may be wrong, but I don't think it's nonsensical. In fact I think it's what appears intuitively true.

An analogy would be a man seeing a mirage, while he's far off, what he sees is clearly there, and it's only when he comes closer to it, when he's able to examine it, that he can see that it was just an illusion.

When we're far off, when we just think of all the complexity and intricacy of the universe, or even us, we clearly see design there, and it's only when we come close, and examine the reality of these things that we can see that this was just an illusion.
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30-10-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
You're missing the point, because you need context. I was thinking of an otherwise prosperous middle class couple with a home and children. They ran into fiscal trouble but kept the news a secret. They tithed, bought no groceries and planned fasts, twice, and bags of groceries appeared at the doorstep.

Since posting, I've thought some more about it. The real miracles are the healings I've seen emotional and physical and the love of the church amongst itself and to the world--the born again church.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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30-10-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(30-10-2014 11:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You're missing the point

Facepalm The point that you're a ridiculous, credulous nitwit and you somehow are proud of it?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-10-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
It's just an extention of the God of Gaps.

Ooh look, a pattern! How is that possible? GOD DID IT
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30-10-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(29-10-2014 01:21 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The bags of groceries showed on their porch without either of the couple soliciting aid from anyone else. This occurred twice. That would be a minor miracle. Major ones are around as well...

Let's look at the mechanics of this. How did this happen?

Let's say God did it.

Did God take a trip to the grocery store, pay for the goods, bag them and dropped them off?

Or

Did he just magic them from nothing? Also magicking the packaging and branding of the products? Does God only miraculously create certain brands too?

Just think about how it must have happened if God did It. It can only really be one of those outcomes.

He couldn't have posessed someone to do it... Free will and all...
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31-10-2014, 05:33 AM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 06:17 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Argument I don't understand
(30-10-2014 11:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You're missing the point, because you need context. I was thinking of an otherwise prosperous middle class couple with a home and children. They ran into fiscal trouble but kept the news a secret. They tithed, bought no groceries and planned fasts, twice, and bags of groceries appeared at the doorstep.

Since posting, I've thought some more about it. The real miracles are the healings I've seen emotional and physical and the love of the church amongst itself and to the world--the born again church.

Complete nonsense and unjust at it's core, this supposed god didn't even see fit to use some of his apparently very limited power and feed a starving child or cure a kid from cancer. Nope, he looked down and decided to help out a mildly inconvenienced family in middle-class America. Nice going YHWH, you're a first class jerk!

You've demonstrated quite an ability to be blind to the cause of events that occur around you, if a bag of groceries shows up on their doorstep there are obvious things you can conclude about that:

1. A person went to a grocery store and bought the groceries.
2. This person knew their address.
3.This person knew of their circumstances.

Honestly, do you choose not to engage any critical faculties here because you REALLY want to believe?

The tree of delusion is nourished by the vague promises and skewed perception of prayer.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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