Argument I don't understand
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08-10-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 12:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  EXISTENCE EXISTS THEREFORE GOD

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No, it isn't any more of an argument than that.
(well; "argument", as it were...)

You will forgive me for saying so, but perhaps you are oversimplifying the opposite side's viewpoint a tad? Smile

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08-10-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:48 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 12:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  EXISTENCE EXISTS THEREFORE GOD

CHECKMATE ATHEISTS

...

No, it isn't any more of an argument than that.
(well; "argument", as it were...)

You will forgive me for saying so, but perhaps you are oversimplifying the opposite side's viewpoint a tad? Smile

The deliberate obfuscation such "arguments" are couched in works to hide it, certainly, but I've not seen any greater depth to any formulation.

Presupposing a creator, one will find in all observation evidence of a creator. Absent the presupposition, no such inference is drawn.

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08-10-2014, 01:55 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
Patterns emerge in nature spontaneously all the time. Patterns emerge in anything spontaneously all the time. It only means there is a pattern. The person arguing for god must provide evidence that the pattern has something to do with god (created by, influence by, whatever the claim). Noting that it exists proves nothing.

Most people, actually nearly all people, don't understand how formal logic works. For them if something is interesting to them it must be compelling to everyone else. They neither know nor care that that their observation is not sufficient as a premise for a reasoned, logical argument. For nearly all people how they feel about something and what they believe to be reasonable are the same thing. So if seeing mathematical symmetry in nature fills them with a sense of reverence and awe that is the same thing as proving god is the source of said reverence and awe. It is incredibly alarming both how common this is, and how nearly impossible it is correct.
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08-10-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would more likely point to patterns in the scriptures as evidence of God's fingerprints on the work. But I thank the creator for making what we call laws of physics, math and etc. to help prevent me from injuring myself--to help me do work--to help me at play or rest.

If you drop a brick on your foot the laws of physics allegedly put in place by your God do not prevent you from injuring yourself one iota. Thanks for demoing ye olde Christian feel-good word salad for us though Thumbsup

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-10-2014, 02:02 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:48 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 12:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  EXISTENCE EXISTS THEREFORE GOD

CHECKMATE ATHEISTS

...

No, it isn't any more of an argument than that.
(well; "argument", as it were...)

You will forgive me for saying so, but perhaps you are oversimplifying the opposite side's viewpoint a tad? Smile
No actually that's pretty much what we hear a lot.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

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08-10-2014, 02:12 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:48 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 12:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  EXISTENCE EXISTS THEREFORE GOD

CHECKMATE ATHEISTS

...

No, it isn't any more of an argument than that.
(well; "argument", as it were...)

You will forgive me for saying so, but perhaps you are oversimplifying the opposite side's viewpoint a tad? Smile

It's boiled down a bit, but it is the essence of many arguments, which I just don't understand. The existence of chocolate chip cookies doesn't mean that the Cookie Monster exists. It just means that cookies exist.

But in this case I tend to disagree that this is the argument being presented. I think it's an argument from ignorance. "I don't understand how these processes can be formed naturally. I can only imagine patterns arising as the result of deliberate intelligent action. Therefore Godidit."
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08-10-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 02:12 PM)natachan Wrote:  But in this case I tend to disagree that this is the argument being presented. I think it's an argument from ignorance. "I don't understand how these processes can be formed naturally. I can only imagine patterns arising as the result of deliberate intelligent action. Therefore Godidit."

It isn't substantially different.

1. I perceive patterns.
2. Patterns must come from somewhere*.
2A. God is somewhere.
Therefore God.

Still a far cry from a compelling argument...

* if so, the only way out of infinite regress is by fiat

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08-10-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would more likely point to patterns in the scriptures as evidence of God's fingerprints on the work. But I thank the creator for making what we call laws of physics, math and etc. to help prevent me from injuring myself--to help me do work--to help me at play or rest.

What? Do you think human authors can't make patterns when they write? There are patterns in Greek mythology - is the Greek pantheon running things?
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09-10-2014, 06:32 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(08-10-2014 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would more likely point to patterns in the scriptures as evidence of God's fingerprints on the work. But I thank the creator for making what we call laws of physics, math and etc. to help prevent me from injuring myself--to help me do work--to help me at play or rest.

Did you go full retard in the last 24 hours, or did you leave your account logged in and let your little brother at the keyboard? I leave the forums and come back and find you shitting in every thread. What the actual fuck?
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09-10-2014, 06:47 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(09-10-2014 06:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Did you go full retard in the last 24 hours

I'm confused. He's always been full retard. There is no other setting.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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