Argument I don't understand
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15-10-2014, 11:19 AM
RE: Argument I don't understand
What the hell is scientism?
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15-10-2014, 11:20 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2014 11:23 AM by Chas.)
RE: Argument I don't understand
(15-10-2014 11:14 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 01:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are all paid salaries. I call that funding.

And, of course, there is this.

And the Templeton Prize.


Yes, scientism is not mainstream. It is a bogeyman trotted out by theists.

Honestly, I'm an open book here. I'm asking to learn and clear up any misconceptions. I'm not asking this to bait you or Robby. Please tell me how scientism is not entrenched in academia and the sciences today. In other words, I know there are theist scientists but there seems to be an anti-metaphysics leaning in the sciences and research. I am not a scientist or scientific researcher.

You made the claim of rampant scientism - you need to support it. It's not up to us to knock down your unsupported assertion.
You can't shift the burden of proof like that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-10-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(15-10-2014 11:19 AM)natachan Wrote:  What the hell is scientism?

Here

In this context, it's being used as a pejorative to ridicule science.
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15-10-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
Then my answer would be that the fields of art and music history, theory, and appreciation are all thriving fields in universities. That philosophy is considered a respectable study. And none of these are strictly scientific. And all are fields highly regarded by academia.
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16-10-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(15-10-2014 11:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 11:14 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Honestly, I'm an open book here. I'm asking to learn and clear up any misconceptions. I'm not asking this to bait you or Robby. Please tell me how scientism is not entrenched in academia and the sciences today. In other words, I know there are theist scientists but there seems to be an anti-metaphysics leaning in the sciences and research. I am not a scientist or scientific researcher.

You made the claim of rampant scientism - you need to support it. It's not up to us to knock down your unsupported assertion.
You can't shift the burden of proof like that.

Um, you made the claim of not rampant scientism and don't wish to support it? You are of course welcomed to stand on "It's a debate and you started it!" but I just left the door very wide open for you. I thought this is a FORUM for discussion and that DEBATES go to a subsection of this FORUM.

So I'll ask again. I may well believe a MYTH that very few academics may indulge in the science of the meta-sciences and etc. and that scientism is the commonly accepted order of the day. Please assist my knowledge base so I can stand corrected.

I am being sincere. Please explain to me how scientism is not adhered to by scientists (when I can find instances across this forum suggesting that fewer scientists are theists than lay people and etc.). Thanks!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-10-2014, 02:02 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(15-10-2014 01:03 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 11:19 AM)natachan Wrote:  What the hell is scientism?

Here

In this context, it's being used as a pejorative to ridicule science.

I think the best parody was John Cleese's video on this! But I'm open. I want to LEARN. This is sincere.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-10-2014, 02:04 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(16-10-2014 02:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 11:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  You made the claim of rampant scientism - you need to support it. It's not up to us to knock down your unsupported assertion.
You can't shift the burden of proof like that.

Um, you made the claim of not rampant scientism and don't wish to support it? You are of course welcomed to stand on "It's a debate and you started it!" but I just left the door very wide open for you. I thought this is a FORUM for discussion and that DEBATES go to a subsection of this FORUM.

So I'll ask again. I may well believe a MYTH that very few academics may indulge in the science of the meta-sciences and etc. and that scientism is the commonly accepted order of the day. Please assist my knowledge base so I can stand corrected.

I am being sincere. Please explain to me how scientism is not adhered to by scientists (when I can find instances across this forum suggesting that fewer scientists are theists than lay people and etc.). Thanks!

Scientism is an extreme position that says only science has value. Show me how that is a rampant attitude among scientists.

Your argument is a straw man.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(16-10-2014 02:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 01:03 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Here

In this context, it's being used as a pejorative to ridicule science.

I think the best parody was John Cleese's video on this! But I'm open. I want to LEARN. This is sincere.

Did you read the article?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(16-10-2014 02:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I am being sincere.

Sincerely dishonest, perhaps.

(16-10-2014 02:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please explain to me how scientism is not adhered to by scientists (when I can find instances across this forum suggesting that fewer scientists are theists than lay people and etc.). Thanks!

Please explain to me what scientism is and how the (lack of) religious beliefs on the part of any given scientist(s) is in any way indicative of anything else. It would probably also be good form to provide specific citations if you are going to speak of the statements of others. Thanks!

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16-10-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Argument I don't understand
(16-10-2014 02:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Um, you made the claim of not rampant scientism and don't wish to support it? You are of course welcomed to stand on "It's a debate and you started it!" but I just left the door very wide open for you. I thought this is a FORUM for discussion and that DEBATES go to a subsection of this FORUM.

So I'll ask again. I may well believe a MYTH that very few academics may indulge in the science of the meta-sciences and etc. and that scientism is the commonly accepted order of the day. Please assist my knowledge base so I can stand corrected.

I am being sincere. Please explain to me how scientism is not adhered to by scientists (when I can find instances across this forum suggesting that fewer scientists are theists than lay people and etc.). Thanks!

Scientism is an extreme position that says only science has value. Show me how that is a rampant attitude among scientists.

Your argument is a straw man.

"Scientism is belief in the universal applicability of the scientific method and approach, and the view that physical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or most valuable part of human learning to the exclusion of other viewpoints." - Those viewpoints would include metaphysics/supernatural events.

Let me rephrase my query (a sincere one, again). Are all atheists taking the scientism worldview? Are most? Do you? Why or why not?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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