Argument for God
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04-04-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: Argument for God
fstratzero beat me to that, . . . and probably did so in a better way than I would have. When we are talking about "things existing or not", . . . mere concepts [purple smiling cloud that follows me around all day] are really rather meaningless. A concrete thing [that literal apple] is what's real. I can interact with it physically. The molecule is as well. I can see it with specialized equipement. . . . . . same for the wind. . . . . and perhaps even a neuro-biologist could tell you how "love" works in our brains.
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04-04-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 01:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  More than that, I’ve asked Him why me at all, because my sins are as heavy as lead. You atheists will never understand those feelings of remorse and regret. And I’m a terrible example of Christ, which only adds to the guilt of my life. And while I can’t talk about specifics, He actually has to miraculously protect me from myself just to use me in the first place. It’s ridiculous. But here’s what He says:

“I raised you up for this. I made you for this. You will do it, or I will kill you. Of all people— you most cannot justify your existence in this world, and I will not leave you in it if you sever our tie. There is no turning back Edward Jerome.”

Then He brings part of a song to mind and it’s so loud, I can’t get it out. I actually have to buy it from Amazon: “Breathe” By Anna Nalick:

Cuz you can’t jump the track
We’re like cars on a cable
And life’s like an hourglass glued to the table
No one can find the rewind button now.
Sing it if you understand.

So, your god has threatened you with death unless you do this for them? Have you asked the supposedly most powerful entity in the universe why they employ such tactics? Do you not see that you are a victim of bullying? This "god" of yours is not worthy of worship but instead should be chastised and ignored. That's all assuming the there is a distinct entity claiming to be this god separate from your own consciousness. In the alternative I'll repeat what I've said before, please seek professional help Egor before you hurt yourself or others.

In the immortal words of Suicidal Tendencies:
"I'm sitting in my room, when my mom and my dad came in. they pulled up a chair and they sat down. They go “mike, we need to talk to you.” And I go “ok, what's the matter?” They go “me and your mom, we've noticed that lately you've been having a lot of problems, and you've been going off for no reason, and we're afraid you're going to hurt somebody, and we're afraid you're going to hurt yourself. So we decided that it would be in your best interest if we put you somewhere where you could get the help that you need.” And I go “wait, what are you talking about, WE decided? MY best interests? How do you know what MY best interest is? How can you say what MY best interest is? What are you trying to say? I'M crazy? When I went to YOUR schools, I went to YOUR churches, I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities? So how can you say I'M crazy?”"
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04-04-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 01:45 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 07:11 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  In this thought game the only "things" that do not "exist" are those things that do not or have not existed physically OR concepts that have not been thought of. An unknown problem occurs when you, as an individual, haven't thought of Mt. Everest being made of ice cream and gum drops but Aseptic Skeptic has. You don't know it exists as a concept but according to this definition it already does.

Ah, but as soon as I am aware of it, it exists as a concept. Until then I never even would have considered it. But it may be very important later on that if I am not conceiving it, it doesn’t exist—as a concept. So, we’ll hold off on that for now, if you don’t mind.

Maybe you never become aware of it. Let's take that apple of yours and insert it here instead of a concept. If there is an apple hidden from you that you are never aware of, does that apple exist? I would say it does. Similar to this would life elsewhere outside earth as an example. It may exist without your/our knowledge. As for any physical or conceptual "thing" not known or proven to exist I am agnostic, it is the logical position.

Quote:When you talk to god have you ever asked him why he has chosen you and only you to be his new messenger?

Quote:But here’s what He says:

“I raised you up for this. I made you for this. You will do it, or I will kill you. Of all people— you most cannot justify your existence in this world, and I will not leave you in it if you sever our tie. There is no turning back Edward Jerome.”

To me that is a disturbing admission, all kidding aside. Devilsadvoc8 is not alone in thinking that you should talk to a professional.

Quote:If you and the apple were the only things in a room, would it still exist if you had no eyes? Popcorn

See example above

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-04-2013, 10:26 AM
 
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 07:52 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  To me that is a disturbing admission, all kidding aside. Devilsadvoc8 is not alone in thinking that you should talk to a professional.

"Tell us how God talks to you." ... "Oh, no, we don't like that--seek help."

Do you really think God is playing a game with our lives? Do you really think He's going to tolerate a wasted life?

I don't think God would ever throw me in hell. Not in a million years. But He's not going to let me sit around palying x-box with the years He's given me to accomplish a purpose He incarnated me for.

And even though you can't handle it, God does speak to people. In fact, the whole world has been shaped by the influence of those God has talked to. The rest of you just follow. Yes

But Full Circle, since you think I need help, why are you trying to get me to consider your position in this argument? Why would you debate with a crazy person? That says more about you than it does about me.

I think I'll wait and entertain a response from someone else.

Or we can just let this wither on the vine, can't we?
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04-04-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Argument for God
You know, the most accurate way to judge a man's true character is to leave him to his own devices and observe him. So, I could respect a man who would do nothing but play Xbox because they wanted to. I, however, can't respect a man that is forced by God, or even tell what kind of person that is because you aren't doing actions that reveal who YOU are. You are simply displaying that you are a God-fearing individual.

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04-04-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Argument for God
Why can't God argue for herself?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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04-04-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 10:26 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 07:52 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  To me that is a disturbing admission, all kidding aside. Devilsadvoc8 is not alone in thinking that you should talk to a professional.

"Tell us how God talks to you." ... "Oh, no, we don't like that--seek help."

Do you really think God is playing a game with our lives? Do you really think He's going to tolerate a wasted life?

I don't think God would ever throw me in hell. Not in a million years. But He's not going to let me sit around palying x-box with the years He's given me to accomplish a purpose He incarnated me for.

And even though you can't handle it, God does speak to people. In fact, the whole world has been shaped by the influence of those God has talked to. The rest of you just follow. Yes

But Full Circle, since you think I need help, why are you trying to get me to consider your position in this argument? Why would you debate with a crazy person? That says more about you than it does about me.

I think I'll wait and entertain a response from someone else.

Or we can just let this wither on the vine, can't we?

I used to believe god spoke to me. That little voice inside my head telling me to dial now for those concert tickets I'd been trying to score...I could go on and on how I believed I had a special connection to god. Then when I stopped believing...the little voice didn't leave...it was then I soon realized it was just me all along. It all came from just me.

I really do hope one day you feel the sense of relief in knowing that voice you hear is just your hopes, dreams and fears, speaking to you and nothing at all supernatural. That you can be just fine without the idea of a god. That your life has deep, profound meaning without god. That what you believed so completely was nothing but your own projections highlighting your hopes or deepest fears.

I really do hope you can one day release yourself from the burdens you seem to place upon yourself. All your anger and mistrust. And I think it's why you come here. Because your envious of those of us who have had the courage and fortitude to speak out and say without any fear; there is no god. You are trying to come to terms with your disbelief.

I really do wish you the best...


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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04-04-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 10:35 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why can't God argue for herself?


She works in mysterious ways Her wonders to perform. Angel

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-04-2013, 04:47 PM
 
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 10:33 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  You know, the most accurate way to judge a man's true character is to leave him to his own devices and observe him. So, I could respect a man who would do nothing but play Xbox because they wanted to.

You've got to be kidding.

Quote:I, however, can't respect a man that is forced by God, or even tell what kind of person that is because you aren't doing actions that reveal who YOU are. You are simply displaying that you are a God-fearing individual.

I don't feel threatened by God, and I want to do what He's given me to do. So what if he kills me? I said I'm not worried that He would ever send me to hell. And He's going to kill me eventually, anyway. You, too.

I feel blessed to do the work He's given me to do. I just don't feel worthy of it.
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04-04-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: Argument for God
(04-04-2013 04:47 PM)Egor Wrote:  I feel blessed to do the work He's given me to do. I just don't feel worthy of it.

Oh no, trust me, you are very worthy of it. Most worthy indeed.

I cannot off-hand think of anyone else more worthy to carry on an imaginary crusade in the name a vile vicious imaginary overfiend - you, sir, are eminently qualified for this task.

Carry on!

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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