Argument for God
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02-04-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: Argument for God
My Dearest Egor,

The reason you see atheists as evasive and refusing to have a serious argument without playing word games every step of the way is because we're already 8 steps ahead of you. As soon as you offer your vague and easily malleable premise, we recognize your end game and beat you to the punch. We know that your intended conclusion is that "God exists" so as soon as you try to build such a grandiose claim on such a shaky foundation as "things either exist or don't exist" we can't help but stop you for clarification. We don't want to later base our acceptance or denial of a anthropomorphic magician creating worlds with his mind on a term like "things." Which is why Erx quickly pointed out that there are "things" that aren't actually "things."

It's not a technique for avoiding the argument. It's a way of making you clarify and define before we jump to the bold conclusions that we all know are coming.

Like if a scientist went, "Hey guys! You know how like sometimes stuff doesn't move? I think I disproved gravity!" The whole room would demand that he back the bus up and explain this whole "sometimes stuff doesn't move" basis.

Forever Yours,
Buddy

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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02-04-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 02:09 PM)Egor Wrote:  So, would you agree that a thing either exists or does not exist? Consider
*sigh*

I'm probably going to regret this later, and I already have an idea where I think this is going....Sad

But I'll bite, and say.... Yes

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02-04-2013, 04:48 PM
 
RE: Argument for God
I will take my disqualification and leave you with your new partner in crime. Small minds must stick together...I'm out.
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02-04-2013, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 07:23 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 02:47 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 02:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yes and no...

Next.

I need to use you for an example: You are disqualified from this discussion.

You will not argue in good faith, which makes you an intellectual coward. If that's not it, then you apparently can't tell the difference between something existing or not existing, in which case you're out of your mind and again, disqualified. Also you reveal that you haven't even thought about your atheism, which means your point of view isn't worth considering.

Feel free to stick around and be atheistic background noise. That seems to be what you're good at anyway. Dodgy

Ha ha. Good one. What, no one's coming to your Church of the Green Dick site ? Thanks for being so Jebusy, Egsy. You are so kind and thoughtful, and Jebus-like. I can see religion is really making you into Jebus. And guess what ? You are not in charge here, or anywhere. If Angie wants to speak, she will speak. You "disqualify" no one. In fact, in light of your past crap, you are not qualified to START a thread. Let alone talk about the gods. What in hell makes you think you are qualified for this ? Just another delusional snake-oil salesman. I do realize you "church" types need to pretend to be on top, and control shit, but you don't. But keep up the jokes. You're hilarious.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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02-04-2013, 05:36 PM
RE: Argument for God
Cosmological Argument for the existence of god

1. Every thing has either been caused to exist by something else or else exists uncaused.
2. Not every thing has been caused to exist by something else.
3. Therefore, at least one thing is itself uncaused.

But this argument fails because #2 cannot be proven, the First Cause argument.

This where I think he's trying to take this thread. Then again maybe he just wants to start a thread so he can throw some insults out.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-04-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 05:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Cosmological Argument for the existence of god

1. Every thing has either been caused to exist by something else or else exists uncaused.
2. Not every thing has been caused to exist by something else.
3. Therefore, at least one thing is itself uncaused.

But this argument fails because #2 cannot be proven, the First Cause argument.

This where I think he's trying to take this thread. Then again maybe he just wants to start a thread so he can throw some insults out.

I think Egor would know that this argument as been refuted already.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 05:40 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I think Egor would know that this argument as been refuted already.

You think? I'm not so sure. Perfectly logical rebuttals seem to bounce off of his skull like it was wrapped in kevlar.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-04-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 03:00 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 02:58 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Define what you mean by a thing, and then define what you mean by existence. If you plan on making this a "Word Game" the I want to know EXACTLY what I am answering.

Evasion through over-complication.

If you don't know what a "thing" is and if you don't know what "existence" is, then you're not qualified for this discussion. You're not qualified to feed or dress yourself either, if that's the case, but that's a different subject. Hobo
Translation: "Give the answers I want and only the answers I want so I can then claim victory in the end."

No thanks. Drinking Beverage

Truly strong arguments require nothing specific of the opposition.

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02-04-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 02:09 PM)Egor Wrote:  I'd like to do this in the Socratic method. I think it works better. If you just lay out an argument, atheists just say, "Nope!" and stick their heads back in the sand. Doing it this way is better. Less intimidating. And if I'm asking the questions and you're giving the answers then you can't very well escape with "prove it" can you?

So, would you agree that a thing either exists or does not exist? Consider

For the most part, no. There is a limited set of things for which we have confirmed either existence or non-existence, and for these things existence is strictly either/or. But for the unconfirmed items, which are multitude, I take the Schrodinger-Cat attitude. Their existence or non-existence is undefined and NOT an either/or state. This undefined state will continue until sufficient observation to confirm the state of their existence is made.

(My views on the subject of what existence actually means and when it is or isn't clearly defined are actually a lot more involved than this, but I edited myself for the sake of brevity.)

I am an antipistevist. That's like an antipastovist, only with epistemic responsibility instead of bruschetta.
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02-04-2013, 07:34 PM
RE: Argument for God
Egor. Was lucifer the 1st of god's sentient creations? I was concerned because he's the Prince Of Darkness, and if there was only darkness before god said let there be light, doesn't that make god the King Of Darkness...........OhMyOdin, God is EVIL..........RUUUNNN, run away, run to....to....we're DOOOMED, DOOOOOMMMED.
Evil_monster

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