Argument for God
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02-04-2013, 11:56 PM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 02:09 PM)Egor Wrote:  I'd like to do this in the Socratic method. I think it works better. If you just lay out an argument, atheists just say, "Nope!" and stick their heads back in the sand. Doing it this way is better. Less intimidating. And if I'm asking the questions and you're giving the answers then you can't very well escape with "prove it" can you?

So, would you agree that a thing either exists or does not exist? Consider

What the hell is the point of this? Why are you debating (as if you could call what this is debating) a group of people that have a rational mindset and demand proof and evidence to conclude the existence of something? You know this is the case! You know what atheism is! And I know you know because when you strip away that dirty vale of religion that you hide behind you seam like an intelligent individual.

Do the words you see before you exist? Does the point of this thread exist?

If God exists I hope he has a good excuse -Woody Allen
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03-04-2013, 12:03 AM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 10:26 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 10:21 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just did a stir fry last night that I must say was rocking good. But I have no idea how I made the sauce. Husband has about thirty billion different sauce like stuff...so I just threw stuff together. I know there was soy...a fish sauce..black bean something or other...hot sesame oil...rice wine vinegar...

There was other stuff. Oh and gin too...maybe.

Sounds like you enjoy cooking with alcohol...I bet you sometimes even put it in the food Big Grin

I call it cooking with spirit. It's my personal therapy after a long day.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-04-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 10:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 10:21 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I just did a stir fry last night that I must say was rocking good. But I have no idea how I made the sauce. Husband has about thirty billion different sauce like stuff...so I just threw stuff together. I know there was soy...a fish sauce..black bean something or other...hot sesame oil...rice wine vinegar...

There was other stuff. Oh and gin too...maybe.

Yum. Smile

It was really good. Nicely balanced too. I'm actually kinda annoyed that I can't remember what all went into it...especially the amounts...cause that's like important when replicating stuff. *sigh* it's an ongoing issue.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-04-2013, 12:10 AM
 
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 04:20 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  I'm probably going to regret this later, and I already have an idea where I think this is going....Sad

But I'll bite, and say.... Yes

Fine, what is an example of something that exists?

Do you think that a thing is defined as anything imagined or physically observable?

(02-04-2013 04:48 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I will take my disqualification and leave you with your new partner in crime. Small minds must stick together...I'm out.

mmmbuhbye. Wink

(02-04-2013 05:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Cosmological Argument for the existence of god

1. Every thing has either been caused to exist by something else or else exists uncaused.
2. Not every thing has been caused to exist by something else.
3. Therefore, at least one thing is itself uncaused.

But this argument fails because #2 cannot be proven, the First Cause argument.

This where I think he's trying to take this thread. Then again maybe he just wants to start a thread so he can throw some insults out.

I don't intend to use the cosmological argument. I think I might be on to something new, and if I'm wrong, you can all have a good laugh. Yes

(02-04-2013 07:10 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  For the most part, no. There is a limited set of things for which we have confirmed either existence or non-existence, and for these things existence is strictly either/or. But for the unconfirmed items, which are multitude, I take the Schrodinger-Cat attitude. Their existence or non-existence is undefined and NOT an either/or state. This undefined state will continue until sufficient observation to confirm the state of their existence is made.

Really? So are you saying that only observed things exist?

(02-04-2013 07:59 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I think this really should be in the philosophy section, where I have promised to restrict myself on a weekly basis, so you will have to contact me there in future.Consider

I'll rush over there and hold my breath until you arrive, sir. Yes

(02-04-2013 08:51 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Have you spoken to your collegues about you doing things voices in your head tell you yet? Well you should.

Bite me.

Quote:Oh and you don't own this thread you can't disqualify anyone from it. This isn't your forum where you seem to be the only poster, having multiple sockpuppets to increase the post count talk about despirate.

My sock puppets, unlike yours, are advertised. I am Egor (normal postings), Edward (Chaplain postings), and Admin (the Owner).

I like my forum the way it is, actually. There are three of us right now actively using it. Real discussions are taking place between three intelligent individuals, and that's how I like it.

If my next book is famous, my forum will be famous. If it's not, then it doesn't need to be. Right now, it's fine the way it is. And there is no difference, and I think you know this, between me posting here and me posting there. I'm in six forums, but really, it's all the same thing. Why? Because I'm Egor. I'm Brother Edward. There's no one else like me out here.

(02-04-2013 11:55 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  There are things that exist, things that don't exist, and things that once existed, but have ceased to do so.

Next question.

Total evasion. Weak...very weak. Dodgy
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03-04-2013, 12:14 AM
RE: Argument for God
Is it possible for a thing to not exist?

How would you know if something doesn't exist? It wouldn't exist for you to even think about it not existing.

If God exists I hope he has a good excuse -Woody Allen
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03-04-2013, 12:16 AM
RE: Argument for God
(03-04-2013 12:14 AM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Is it possible for a thing to not exist?

How would you know if something doesn't exist? It wouldn't exist for you to even think about it not existing.

But there are things that don't exist that people think about. Unicorns, dragons, god...et al


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-04-2013, 12:23 AM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 11:51 PM)Egor Wrote:  I have news for you. I have no idea where this is headed.

So, the next questions are, "What is something that exists? and Is it possible for a thing to not exist? Given that we now have the definition of a thing as any physical or imagined thing.

If I were to run a trial balance at this point, this is where we are:

* Would you agree that a thing either exists or doesn't?
* Yes.
* What is a thing that exists?
* Is it possible for a thing to not exist?

The bolded question is a contradiction. Things by definition exist. You are asking is it possible for something which exists to not exist? The question is nonsensical.
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03-04-2013, 12:26 AM
RE: Argument for God
(03-04-2013 12:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 12:14 AM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Is it possible for a thing to not exist?

How would you know if something doesn't exist? It wouldn't exist for you to even think about it not existing.

But there are things that don't exist that people think about. Unicorns, dragons, god...et al

Those can be found in nature, modified by mans imagination mind you, but they are there.

Unicorns: Horse + narwhal
Dragons: Lizard + bat
God: man + delusion

If God exists I hope he has a good excuse -Woody Allen
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03-04-2013, 12:31 AM
 
RE: Argument for God
(03-04-2013 12:14 AM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  How would you know if something doesn't exist? It wouldn't exist for you to even think about it not existing.

Good point. A thing cannot not exist. Or it wouldn't be a thing. The only things that do not exist would be what Mom is suggesting below:

(03-04-2013 12:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But there are things that don't exist that people think about. Unicorns, dragons, god...et al

It's apples and oranges. A physical dragon does not exist. But the concept of a dragon does exist.

So, an idea can exist, but it's an idea not a physical object. There is no such thing as a unicorn, but there is such thing as the concept of a unicorn.

So, are we in agreement that a thing must exist either as a concept or an object. And can we therefore agree that it is a contradiction to talk about a "thing" that doesn't exist.
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03-04-2013, 12:32 AM
RE: Argument for God
(02-04-2013 02:09 PM)Egor Wrote:  I'd like to do this in the Socratic method. I think it works better. If you just lay out an argument, atheists just say, "Nope!" and stick their heads back in the sand. Doing it this way is better. Less intimidating. And if I'm asking the questions and you're giving the answers then you can't very well escape with "prove it" can you?

So, would you agree that a thing either exists or does not exist? Consider

Thats a loaded question. Things like thoughts and ideas do not exist physically, but exist through actions and the like, while concepts such seen in, lets use anime as an example, exist as concepts but not as reality, because the ideas behind such ridiculous action taken therein are impossible IE: Blasting a wave of Ki out of your hand, or replicating ones self many times over. You god is of this category, but just not as cool. He exists as a concept in the human imagination, but cannot be made real through our actions. In the end, Gods we just concepts created to explain natural events or control ignorant people in savage times.

I could imagine a world filled with magical ponies, but that doesn't mean it exists anywhere outside of my head, and to try to sell my magical world of ponies as real would be me just stroking my own Egor, eh ahem I mean Ego..... year that's what I meant.

but nice try with the trick question, good effort.
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