Argument from personal revelation
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-08-2017, 07:13 PM
Argument from personal revelation
I just wanted to touch on this quickly, simply because this seems to be the last hill that theists will die on, as they claim their religion is true.

"God told me," they say. "God revealed himself to me."

No... no he didn't. Understand what you're implying if you say that God talked to you and not me. Why would he do that? Does he care more about your salvation than mine?

I know this is simplistic to refute, but when a theist is pressed for evidence, this seems to be one of the 'evidences' they fall back on, once they realize they don't have any. So I just want to simply ask, why does God reveal himself to you and not me? If he wants everyone to come to 'knowledge of the truth,' why is he highly selective about whom he reveals that truth to? I read the Bible and prayed for years. Why does he stick his fingers in his ears for me and not you?

Sorry this just seems to be the next argument I've heard recently, after the argument from math, and the argument from morality. I figure they're all worth examining.

Regards.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
~ 0 ~
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Cosmo's post
21-08-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 07:13 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I just wanted to touch on this quickly, simply because this seems to be the last hill that theists will die on, as they claim their religion is true.

"God told me," they say. "God revealed himself to me."

No... no he didn't. Understand what you're implying if you say that God talked to you and not me. Why would he do that? Does he care more about your salvation than mine?

Because you are a different God than me, silly.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
21-08-2017, 07:19 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
It was the main defense made by the last theist I spoke to (a pleasant conversation, over beers). Ultimately, he "felt" it. I couldn't convince him that really how could he know that it wasn't just his own mine projecting what he imagined the almighty to be saying to him? He just "felt" it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like jerry mcmasters's post
21-08-2017, 07:53 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
The tricky thing with this argument is it can be hard to address without making it look like you're mocking the person, even if you try not to.

Now, there is a lot of good evidence out there to point to how shitty humans memories are, how we are prone to embellishing things, and how our memories are influenced by what others claimed to see. This is known psychology. Other "paranormal" things like near death experiences and demonic/angelic presences at night time are fairly well understood enough to have mundane explanations. There are also a crap-ton of cognitive biases that cause people to filter out things that don't fit into their view while keeping what does. Combine that with the psychological need many people have to "be right" about these sorts of things, and it's pretty easy to see how someone can get from a somewhat interesting story to a full-fledged miracle/interaction with Almighty God.

Of course, you can't prove that they didn't actually have the experience, and it's hard to say this without accusing them of being crazy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like RobbyPants's post
21-08-2017, 07:58 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 07:13 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I just wanted to touch on this quickly, simply because this seems to be the last hill that theists will die on, as they claim their religion is true.

"God told me," they say. "God revealed himself to me."

I think the best evidence against so-called revelations are the facts of human psychology and history. Convictions and intuitions have very little correlation with observable facts, and historically they have failed again and again. So the simplest explanation for "revelations" is that we are naturally biased in our own favor because of the selectivity of our attention and partiality of our information.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Thoreauvian's post
21-08-2017, 08:10 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 07:13 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I just wanted to touch on this quickly, simply because this seems to be the last hill that theists will die on, as they claim their religion is true.

"God told me," they say. "God revealed himself to me."

IF the Christian God actually existed, wouldn't it be more likely to talk with atheists in an attempt to make them believers—rather than its theist flock who already kneel at its feet?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like SYZ's post
21-08-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
Back when I was theist, I just knew I felt something. It was there for God/Adonai/Ein Sof to show me. I later learned it was just the thrill of research and thinking.

Which ironically led me to realizing I was an atheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Clockwork's post
21-08-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 08:15 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  Back when I was theist, I just knew I felt something. It was there for God/Adonai/Ein Sof to show me. I later learned it was just the thrill of research and thinking.

Which ironically led me to realizing I was an atheist.

Yeah, how come atheist intuitions aren't accepted? Just because we don't have God to back us up?

Hobo

Such things should stand on their own if they stand at all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Thoreauvian's post
21-08-2017, 08:21 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 08:18 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Yeah, how come atheist intuitions aren't accepted? Just because we don't have God to back us up?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I agree. When I did legal research and found interesting shit on my own, it felt wonderful.

Secular intuition and revelations can still induce goosebumps. Or maybe I'm too weird.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Clockwork's post
21-08-2017, 08:26 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
Too easy.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Banjo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: