Argument from personal revelation
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21-08-2017, 11:31 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
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21-08-2017, 11:34 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
Appeal to (imaginary) authority.

I don't care who said it. Evidence or STFU.

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21-08-2017, 11:54 PM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
I'm afraid I cannot accept personal revelation as evidence for God. I might trust you completely that you had some mystical experience, and you're welcome to take that as evidence yourself, but even if I myself had a mystical experience I would be extremely suspicious that I was suffering from hallucinations possibly, or otherwise being tricked by myself or others.

God existing I would not easily accept anyway, since he's invisible and apparently very hard to detect, I would want to have some kind of scientific consensus. I can't just trust myself, nor can I trust a bunch of preacher types, no matter how numerous - they have a vested interest in God's existence. It's the justification for getting donations from the faithful. Ideally, some kind of *theory* of God. with clear definitions, an attested body of experiment, peer reviewed papers, and no real accepted dogma... in that case I could accept God's existence. But no one will ever set up such a thing. So God remains a fairy tale.

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22-08-2017, 03:00 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
The condensed discussion:
Theist "Because, I've seen things"
Me "oh, really? show me these things"
Theist " They were revealed to me"
Me " enjoy YOUR things"

The final condensed version:
Theist "Because"
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22-08-2017, 03:08 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
Personal revelation to me always sounds like a mental illness.

How do you know?
"god himself told me"
When/where/how?
"on my own/at home/in my head"
So a voice in your head told you something?
"yes"

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22-08-2017, 03:57 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
This is one of the main reasons why my wife and I haven't really talked about religion very much after I told her I didn't believe in god any more. I said things like the bible doesn't make any sense and that I have no evidence to think any god exists etc...

And her main response was that she didn't believe in god just because of the bible, but that she had personal experiences with god.

And I said that that is probably what I would need too, a "personal experience" of god.

That was about 6 years ago. I wonder what he's waiting for, I also wonder if she wonders what he's waiting for.

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22-08-2017, 04:27 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2017 04:44 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 11:34 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Appeal to (imaginary) authority.

I don't care who said it. Evidence or STFU.

Yeah, "God told me..." is the ultimate argument from authority.

And who's to say "God" didn't lie?

If someone walked up to you and said, "I'm God and I exist," would you believe him? And a voice in your head is even less evident.
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22-08-2017, 05:22 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 07:13 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I just wanted to touch on this quickly, simply because this seems to be the last hill that theists will die on, as they claim their religion is true.

"God told me," they say. "God revealed himself to me."

No... no he didn't. Understand what you're implying if you say that God talked to you and not me. Why would he do that? Does he care more about your salvation than mine?

I know this is simplistic to refute, but when a theist is pressed for evidence, this seems to be one of the 'evidences' they fall back on, once they realize they don't have any. So I just want to simply ask, why does God reveal himself to you and not me? If he wants everyone to come to 'knowledge of the truth,' why is he highly selective about whom he reveals that truth to? I read the Bible and prayed for years. Why does he stick his fingers in his ears for me and not you?

Sorry this just seems to be the next argument I've heard recently, after the argument from math, and the argument from morality. I figure they're all worth examining.

Regards.

I would remind them that men like Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite claimed revelation from god - right before a bunch of their convinced followers committed suicide. So I would decline their crazy unless god reveals winning lottery numbers to them to give me to convince me. Drinking Beverage

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22-08-2017, 07:01 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
Also, there's no way to evaluate contradictory "revelations", except by scientific analysis. And if revelation holds up to that, then it's irrelevant where it came from.

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22-08-2017, 07:52 AM
RE: Argument from personal revelation
(21-08-2017 07:13 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  No... no he didn't. Understand what you're implying if you say that God talked to you and not me. Why would he do that? Does he care more about your salvation than mine?

John 20:29
Quote:Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It sounds like the ones he talks to or appears to are not the ones favored. Tongue

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