Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
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10-10-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 09:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 09:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No not really; Martians and Bigfoot have little to do with objective morality or the conscience or truth.

My personal experience with a Martian bigfoot provided me with irrefutable proof that there is no objective morality. I know for a fact that that is true even though I can provide no empirical evidence to support it. After the experience I wrote down stuff that sounded like anything you'd see on one of those bigfoot hunter or ancient aliens shows. There's no explanation of how I, a human, could come up with something that sounded a lot like other stuff I'd heard before and was previously written by other humans. The parts of the shows that agree with me are more evidence and the parts that don't show that human greed has corrupted the truth. Thousands, maybe millions of people believe in aliens or bigfoot and that's got to mean something. They are all connecting to the inner truth that lets them know that these things exist. If you remove the self and deny other, more mundane explanations, you would see the truth. Stop limiting yourself and just accept that people can know about aliens and bigfoot from inner conviction and fallacious arguments.

Yes, Pops, that's what you sound like.

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10-10-2016, 10:06 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 09:14 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 05:23 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Atheism is a claim as well though, and too could be used to prove theists wrong, but similarly can't be proven.

Atheism is a direct result of you, and everyone else making supernatural claims, failing to meet their burden of proof. Drinking Beverage

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10-10-2016, 10:52 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 09:55 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 09:42 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  As for me; I know without any doubt what so ever that there is a GOD. It was proven to me personally. It is irrefutable to me personally. Yet I cannot prove it using empirical evidence. All I have is my testimony and the fact that it was received to me prior to ever reading any sort of scripture yet aligns perfectly with scripture in most cases is further proof for me if I needed any. As a sort of result to what took place I wrote things down that sound as if they were taken out of some religious moral text, but I had never read such. I can describe by experience to the best of my ability, but that isn't hard proof either as it wasn't recorded and is only my word.
Yeah, personal experience is not proof. It's belief.
So you don't know the things that you experience first hand to be true?

That must suck.

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10-10-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 09:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 09:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No not really; Martians and Bigfoot have little to do with objective morality or the conscience or truth.

My personal experience with a Martian bigfoot provided me with irrefutable proof that there is no objective morality. I know for a fact that that is true even though I can provide no empirical evidence to support it. After the experience I wrote down stuff that sounded like anything you'd see on one of those bigfoot hunter or ancient aliens shows. There's no explanation of how I, a human, could come up with something that sounded a lot like other stuff I'd heard before and was previously written by other humans. The parts of the shows that agree with me are more evidence and the parts that don't show that human greed has corrupted the truth. Thousands, maybe millions of people believe in aliens or bigfoot and that's got to mean something. They are all connecting to the inner truth that lets them know that these things exist. If you remove the self and deny other, more mundane explanations, you would see the truth. Stop limiting yourself and just accept that people can know about aliens and bigfoot from inner conviction and fallacious arguments.

Yes, Pops, that's what you sound like.
Lol

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10-10-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 05:23 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Atheism is a claim as well though, and too could be used to prove theists wrong, but similarly can't be proven.

Atheism is a direct result of you, and everyone else making supernatural claims, to meet their burden of proof. Drinking Beverage
Woe buddy, who said anything about the supernatural?

All is natural though some things are less common than others.

I don't adhere to the idea that God is a person floating around.



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10-10-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So you don't know the things that you experience first hand to be true?

I believe I experienced them. I don't assume I know the cause of the experience unless I have evidence.

Quote:That must suck.

Sometimes. Being rational is not as easy as giving in to wishful thinking and delusion.

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10-10-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:56 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 10:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So you don't know the things that you experience first hand to be true?

I believe I experienced them. I don't assume I know the cause of the experience unless I have evidence.

Quote:That must suck.

Sometimes. Being rational is not as easy as giving in to wishful thinking and delusion.
Too bad we aren't talking about a cause of an experience but the experience itself.

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10-10-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 05:23 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Atheism is a claim as well though, and too could be used to prove theists wrong, but similarly can't be proven.

Atheism is a direct result of you, and everyone else making supernatural claims, failing to meet their burden of proof. Drinking Beverage

fixt.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Too bad we aren't talking about a cause of an experience but the experience itself.

What does that even mean?

Your internal mental states are not evidence of anything external to your mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2016, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 12:04 PM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 11:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 10:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Too bad we aren't talking about a cause of an experience but the experience itself.

What does that even mean?

Your internal mental states are not evidence of anything external to your mind.
Personal experience is evidence in itself. At very least; for the one who experienced it.

Given that said individual was under the influence of no thing, nor in withdrawals or dt, and with no exceptional stressors at that time.

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