Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
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10-10-2016, 08:33 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 07:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
I agree that auditory hallucinations are the most common.

What is your point? An auditory hallucinations does no not explain what happened as they are generally simple sounds such as bells or ringing or whistling or buzzing type sounds. Hearing actual audible voices is a sign of a form of schizophrenia, and isn't related as I didn't actually hear any voices per say. That also doesn't explain the elation or the revelations or the radio.



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It is all explained by hallucination and your inability to think about it critically.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 08:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I agree that auditory hallucinations are the most common.

What is your point? An auditory hallucinations does no not explain what happened as they are generally simple sounds such as bells or ringing or whistling or buzzing type sounds. Hearing actual audible voices is a sign of a form of schizophrenia, and isn't related as I didn't actually hear any voices per say. That also doesn't explain the elation or the revelations or the radio.



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It is all explained by hallucination and your inability to think about it critically.
So not hearing a radio can cause unimagined joy to flourish, gratefulness, revelations, lifting of burdens, deep understandings, and radios to come on?

Very logical.

If only I could think critically like you.
Oh please teach me great senile one.

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10-10-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:38 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 08:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is all explained by hallucination and your inability to think about it critically.
So not hearing a radio can cause unimagined joy to flourish, gratefulness, revelations, lifting of burdens, deep understandings, and radios to come on?

Very logical.

If only I could think critically like you.
Oh please teach me great senile one.

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That was excessive and uncalled for.

My bad.

Time for me to take a break from this topic for now. I'm really not interested in being contentious for no good reason. I know you aren't dumb.

Peace

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10-10-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:38 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 08:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is all explained by hallucination and your inability to think about it critically.
So not hearing a radio can cause unimagined joy to flourish, gratefulness, revelations, lifting of burdens, deep understandings, and radios to come on?

Very logical.

If only I could think critically like you.
Oh please teach me great senile one.

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You are very confused as to cause and effect, as well as trying to give reality to hallucination.

Not being senile, I can recognize your inability to think critically and rationally.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 08:38 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So not hearing a radio can cause unimagined joy to flourish, gratefulness, revelations, lifting of burdens, deep understandings, and radios to come on?

Very logical.

If only I could think critically like you.
Oh please teach me great senile one.

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You are very confused as to cause and effect, as well as trying to give reality to hallucination.

Not being senile, I can recognize your inability to think critically and rationally.
No sir, you implied that my entire experience could be chalked upbt9 an auditory hallucination. So I showed you how illogiclal and presumptuous that notion actually was.

As far as cause and effect are concerned; if it was all caused by an auditory hallucination and the first part was the radio fading out then it follows that the rest was the result of the radio fading out and all also simply auditory hallucinations. I understand what you were getting at. I was just being rude.

But it couldn't have all simply been a singular auditory hallucination in my honest opinion. Frankly assuming it was a breakdown of some sort is more feasible, yet still doesn't fit well with the experience.

Peace

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10-10-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:50 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 08:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are very confused as to cause and effect, as well as trying to give reality to hallucination.

Not being senile, I can recognize your inability to think critically and rationally.
No sir, you implied that my entire experience could be chalked upbt9 an auditory hallucination. So I showed you how illogiclal and presumptuous that notion actually was.

No, I did not limit it to an auditory hallucination.

Quote:As far as cause and effect are concerned; if it was all caused by an auditory hallucination and the first part was the radio fading out then it follows that the rest was the result of the radio fading out and all also simply auditory hallucinations. I understand what you were getting at. I was just being rude.

But it couldn't have all simply been a singular auditory hallucination in my honest opinion. Frankly assuming it was a breakdown of some sort is more feasible, yet still doesn't fit well with the experience.

Your reading comprehension rivals your critical thinking skills. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 08:50 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But it couldn't have all simply been a singular auditory hallucination in my honest opinion.

Guess how much that's fuckin' worth pops.Drinking Beverage

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10-10-2016, 09:16 PM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 10:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 10:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Atheism is a direct result of you, and everyone else making supernatural claims, failing to meet their burden of proof. Drinking Beverage
Woe buddy, who said anything about the supernatural?

All is natural though some things are less common than others.

I don't adhere to the idea that God is a person floating around.

If it's natural, then it's testable. The fact that you have no evidence is now even more indicative that there is simply nothing there. Drinking Beverage

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10-10-2016, 09:23 PM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 09:50 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 07:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I agree that not having a recollection of driving on a common road is no bizarre thing. But I also know myself. Even now, years later, if I don't pay attention, it gets dangerous quick, even on familiar roads.

The radio wasn't a distraction. Everything else that happened is what kept my mind off of the road. The radio was more like a before and after thing. The station didn't get static or fade in and out from interference. There was no audible interference. The chances of me turning analog knobs to the same volume and sound level while not being able to here the radio at all are very slim.

So some want to say I was experiencing some sort of hallucination or crazy spell or something, and that interference caused radio malfunctions at the same time. That isn't too likely either. No one has even given an opinion on what could have caused the delusion. I was sober and not stressed. I had been clean for some time.

So what could cause an analog radio to smoothly fade out to nothing, still have power, and fade back in in the same manner minutes after the knobs had been adjusted. I've dealt with interference and driving out of range of a station before, but that wasn't the case as this was a station I regularly listened to after work. There weren't many to choose from there. I've even heard people's partial phone conversations come through the radio, but again, this wasn't static or interference. It was as if the volume slowly and evenly went down, and when things settled it came back up.

Since that day I do not believe in coincidence and there is no evidence that coincidences or chance are real.

Me knowing it was GOD in some form had nothing to do with the radio. When all my burdens and pain and hatred instantly left me immediately after the radio faded out, and I was filled with joy and peace that I had never even known possible, let alone experienced before, I began thanking GOD with tears running down my face. There was never any question as to what produced the elation, even before things started being presented to me. After that point, if I needed proof that it was GOD, which I did not, the the nature of the things that came into my mind where that proof. It is hard to pinpoint why I just new it was GOD. It is hard to describe because things weren't exactly audible or spoken, but it was understood that it was GOD. Even if I hadn't grasped it on an intellectual level, my subconscious did as I was crying like a baby. I never knew what tears of joy were. I didn't really think it was a real thing. But they are.

Before this happened I was a very emotionally dead person for the most part. I do not recall ever out right crying after childhood... Until that moment as a 30 year old man.

Being an atheist; I wouldn't have naturally drawn the conclusion that it was GOD. But as I said, it was irrefutable, and if you can't tell from my posts; I'm pretty hard headed. If there was an explanation needed, then I would have found one that matched. Even though it wasn't needed to me, I still looked into things that it could have been. But the descriptors and prerequisites won't match at all in most cases.

What other thing would it have been in your opinion?

I didn't mean to be short with your earlier either, I apologize; I get that way at times from dealing with others, and didn't mean to put you in the same category as them. Still not an excuse and I do apologise.

I value your opinion and look forward to your reply.

Peace

Look pops, you are a sincere guy and I know you truly believe that your god was responsible for the things you describe above.

But you have to remember that the seeds of beliefs had long been planted in your psyche, this predisposes you to assign meaning to events as having being caused by god as opposed to the natural inner workings of the mind.

None of us will ever be able to dissuade you from what you so desperately WANT to be true. You want these emotions and feelings to be attributable to your god but remember that humans are continuously guilty of attaching cause to completely unrelated events and I think that’s all that has happened here. As for the radio, well that’s just so weak from a god don’t you think? Isn’t more plausible that it was anything other than a supreme being?

I’m glad you finally told us your story of revelation so we wouldn’t have to continue guessing but as far as I’m concerned nothing you have described leaves me thinking that anything but natural explanations are needed.

In my lifetime I have heard many stories of revelation and each person was just as sincere and just as completely convinced that a higher power was responsible as you are of yours. Just think of all the stories we hear of apparitions and mysterious happenings and to this day not a single one has ever been substantiated or conclusively shown to have an other-worldly cause and it hasn’t been for lack of trying.

In the end you want it to be true so to you it is. You should just leave it at that and stop trying to convince any of us into buying your personal delusions or whatever you want to call them.

I was going to say you have no reason for being on this Forum but that’s not correct, I think you are a very good example for everyone here of what happens to people when they need to give their lives meaning and are prone to flights of fancy or have a low bar for “evidence”. You’ll never see it that way but that’s not surprising. You go ahead and continue to defend and explain your position, it is quite the education.

Peace.

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11-10-2016, 04:57 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 09:23 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 07:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I agree that not having a recollection of driving on a common road is no bizarre thing. But I also know myself. Even now, years later, if I don't pay attention, it gets dangerous quick, even on familiar roads.

The radio wasn't a distraction. Everything else that happened is what kept my mind off of the road. The radio was more like a before and after thing. The station didn't get static or fade in and out from interference. There was no audible interference. The chances of me turning analog knobs to the same volume and sound level while not being able to here the radio at all are very slim.

So some want to say I was experiencing some sort of hallucination or crazy spell or something, and that interference caused radio malfunctions at the same time. That isn't too likely either. No one has even given an opinion on what could have caused the delusion. I was sober and not stressed. I had been clean for some time.

So what could cause an analog radio to smoothly fade out to nothing, still have power, and fade back in in the same manner minutes after the knobs had been adjusted. I've dealt with interference and driving out of range of a station before, but that wasn't the case as this was a station I regularly listened to after work. There weren't many to choose from there. I've even heard people's partial phone conversations come through the radio, but again, this wasn't static or interference. It was as if the volume slowly and evenly went down, and when things settled it came back up.

Since that day I do not believe in coincidence and there is no evidence that coincidences or chance are real.

Me knowing it was GOD in some form had nothing to do with the radio. When all my burdens and pain and hatred instantly left me immediately after the radio faded out, and I was filled with joy and peace that I had never even known possible, let alone experienced before, I began thanking GOD with tears running down my face. There was never any question as to what produced the elation, even before things started being presented to me. After that point, if I needed proof that it was GOD, which I did not, the the nature of the things that came into my mind where that proof. It is hard to pinpoint why I just new it was GOD. It is hard to describe because things weren't exactly audible or spoken, but it was understood that it was GOD. Even if I hadn't grasped it on an intellectual level, my subconscious did as I was crying like a baby. I never knew what tears of joy were. I didn't really think it was a real thing. But they are.

Before this happened I was a very emotionally dead person for the most part. I do not recall ever out right crying after childhood... Until that moment as a 30 year old man.

Being an atheist; I wouldn't have naturally drawn the conclusion that it was GOD. But as I said, it was irrefutable, and if you can't tell from my posts; I'm pretty hard headed. If there was an explanation needed, then I would have found one that matched. Even though it wasn't needed to me, I still looked into things that it could have been. But the descriptors and prerequisites won't match at all in most cases.

What other thing would it have been in your opinion?

I didn't mean to be short with your earlier either, I apologize; I get that way at times from dealing with others, and didn't mean to put you in the same category as them. Still not an excuse and I do apologise.

I value your opinion and look forward to your reply.

Peace

Look pops, you are a sincere guy and I know you truly believe that your god was responsible for the things you describe above.

But you have to remember that the seeds of beliefs had long been planted in your psyche, this predisposes you to assign meaning to events as having being caused by god as opposed to the natural inner workings of the mind.

None of us will ever be able to dissuade you from what you so desperately WANT to be true. You want these emotions and feelings to be attributable to your god but remember that humans are continuously guilty of attaching cause to completely unrelated events and I think that’s all that has happened here. As for the radio, well that’s just so weak from a god don’t you think? Isn’t more plausible that it was anything other than a supreme being?

I’m glad you finally told us your story of revelation so we wouldn’t have to continue guessing but as far as I’m concerned nothing you have described leaves me thinking that anything but natural explanations are needed.

In my lifetime I have heard many stories of revelation and each person was just as sincere and just as completely convinced that a higher power was responsible as you are of yours. Just think of all the stories we hear of apparitions and mysterious happenings and to this day not a single one has ever been substantiated or conclusively shown to have an other-worldly cause and it hasn’t been for lack of trying.

In the end you want it to be true so to you it is. You should just leave it at that and stop trying to convince any of us into buying your personal delusions or whatever you want to call them.

I was going to say you have no reason for being on this Forum but that’s not correct, I think you are a very good example for everyone here of what happens to people when they need to give their lives meaning and are prone to flights of fancy or have a low bar for “evidence”. You’ll never see it that way but that’s not surprising. You go ahead and continue to defend and explain your position, it is quite the education.

Peace.
I appreciate your tone.

The seeds of belief were not planted.

I was atheist.

I would have readily and happily used any other explanation possible just like people here are doing now.

I wanted no thing what so ever.

I was not looking for God.

I wasn't contemplating God.

I didn't think I needed God.

I haven't given an accurate recount of what happened on this thread.

I typed it out on some level on this forum about a year's ago I guess.

I'm going to cut and paste it if I can find it.

But I was honestly an atheist and attributing anomalies to God would have been the last thing I would have done.

To me there was a logical explanation for everything, until that happened.

Thank you for the tone you chose to use there.

Peace to you as well.

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