Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
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11-10-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 06:24 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 05:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm sorry, but you lost me when you started talking about organized religion.

I don't go to church and never have one regular basis. I am not a member of any church nor do I frequent any.

I had no interaction with the indoctrinated before or immediately after. And still, now, my interactions with them are generally not edifying. The vast majority of them consider me satanic or heretical at very least.

You grew up in the US, didn't you? The culture is rife with biblical references and it would be nearly impossible not to have heard it even if you generally ignored it. When you start thinking a god has talked to you it would be expected that your brain would make associations with things you knew about it. That could easily explain why any writing had a vaguely scriptural style and/or content.
That isn't accurate.

Being a solitary atheist, I hadn't heard scripture. Sure I had heard of GOD. Haven't you?

Yet you don't believe, so why would you think that I would?

You are an atheist right? And as an atheist, do you hold around looking to link things to the possibility of God? I bet not. The same could have been said of me at that time.

Again; I was looking for nothing. I wasn't desperate or depressed at that time or even day.
I didn't think about what was happening while it was happening and conclude by my my own thought that it was God.

Peace

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11-10-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 06:27 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 06:24 AM)unfogged Wrote:  You grew up in the US, didn't you? The culture is rife with biblical references and it would be nearly impossible not to have heard it even if you generally ignored it. When you start thinking a god has talked to you it would be expected that your brain would make associations with things you knew about it. That could easily explain why any writing had a vaguely scriptural style and/or content.

Christian influences in the US tend to very subtle.

[Image: 12557369.jpg]
I agree. But what I'm talking about and what happened had nothing to do with Christianity, but GOD in general. Nothing came to me proclaiming that it was Jesus or the Christ.

Peace

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11-10-2016, 06:55 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
♫I'm dancing as fast as I can.♫
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11-10-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 06:27 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Christian influences in the US tend to very subtle.

[Image: 12557369.jpg]
I agree. But what I'm talking about and what happened had nothing to do with Christianity, but GOD in general. Nothing came to me proclaiming that it was Jesus or the Christ.

Peace

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All of this alleged "proof" depends on your memory of said proof, which isn't reliable.

In fact, you have proven just how unreliable your memory is in this very thread! Or have you forgotten? Conveniently forgotten......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-10-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 06:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I agree. But what I'm talking about and what happened had nothing to do with Christianity, but GOD in general. Nothing came to me proclaiming that it was Jesus or the Christ.

Peace

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All of this alleged "proof" depends on your memory of said proof, which isn't reliable.

In fact, you have proven just how unreliable your memory is in this very thread! Or have you forgotten? Conveniently forgotten......
I'll bite.

What are you talking about?

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11-10-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 07:03 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 06:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  All of this alleged "proof" depends on your memory of said proof, which isn't reliable.

In fact, you have proven just how unreliable your memory is in this very thread! Or have you forgotten? Conveniently forgotten......
I'll bite.

What are you talking about?

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Hahahaha! I knew it, you just proved how bad your memory is, look at posts 36,65 and 67.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-10-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(10-10-2016 07:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I agree that not having a recollection of driving on a common road is no bizarre thing. But I also know myself. Even now, years later, if I don't pay attention, it gets dangerous quick, even on familiar roads.

The radio wasn't a distraction. Everything else that happened is what kept my mind off of the road. The radio was more like a before and after thing. The station didn't get static or fade in and out from interference. There was no audible interference. The chances of me turning analog knobs to the same volume and sound level while not being able to here the radio at all are very slim.

So some want to say I was experiencing some sort of hallucination or crazy spell or something, and that interference caused radio malfunctions at the same time. That isn't too likely either. No one has even given an opinion on what could have caused the delusion. I was sober and not stressed. I had been clean for some time.

So what could cause an analog radio to smoothly fade out to nothing, still have power, and fade back in in the same manner minutes after the knobs had been adjusted. I've dealt with interference and driving out of range of a station before, but that wasn't the case as this was a station I regularly listened to after work. There weren't many to choose from there. I've even heard people's partial phone conversations come through the radio, but again, this wasn't static or interference. It was as if the volume slowly and evenly went down, and when things settled it came back up.

Since that day I do not believe in coincidence and there is no evidence that coincidences or chance are real.

Me knowing it was GOD in some form had nothing to do with the radio. When all my burdens and pain and hatred instantly left me immediately after the radio faded out, and I was filled with joy and peace that I had never even known possible, let alone experienced before, I began thanking GOD with tears running down my face. There was never any question as to what produced the elation, even before things started being presented to me. After that point, if I needed proof that it was GOD, which I did not, the the nature of the things that came into my mind where that proof. It is hard to pinpoint why I just new it was GOD. It is hard to describe because things weren't exactly audible or spoken, but it was understood that it was GOD. Even if I hadn't grasped it on an intellectual level, my subconscious did as I was crying like a baby. I never knew what tears of joy were. I didn't really think it was a real thing. But they are.

Before this happened I was a very emotionally dead person for the most part. I do not recall ever out right crying after childhood... Until that moment as a 30 year old man.

Being an atheist; I wouldn't have naturally drawn the conclusion that it was GOD. But as I said, it was irrefutable, and if you can't tell from my posts; I'm pretty hard headed. If there was an explanation needed, then I would have found one that matched. Even though it wasn't needed to me, I still looked into things that it could have been. But the descriptors and prerequisites won't match at all in most cases.

What other thing would it have been in your opinion?

I didn't mean to be short with your earlier either, I apologize; I get that way at times from dealing with others, and didn't mean to put you in the same category as them. Still not an excuse and I do apologise.

I value your opinion and look forward to your reply.

Peace


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No matter how much you think you "know" it was God, the fact remains that you decided it was God. Think of it this way. Imagine a world where the concept of God never existed, was never discussed, or even imagined. Yet, in reality, a God was out there that no one knew anything about. If that God made its presence known to you in the way that you described, you would not have concluded it was God, because no such concept would have been preconceived in your mind. You simply wouldn't have known what that experience was.

Back to this reality, what you experienced was simply something you couldn't explain - no more and no less - and you interpreted that experience as a sign or communication from God because the concept of God was already known to you and you couldn't find an alternative more plausible explanation. But if you have never met or seen God, how would you know anything about God to "know" this experience was God? You wouldn't. This experience in some way fit your preconception about God and therefore you decided at some level (maybe even unconsciously) that this was from God.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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11-10-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 07:25 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 07:03 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'll bite.

What are you talking about?

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Hahahaha! I knew it, you just proved how bad your memory is, look at posts 36,65 and 67.
Sure, sure

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11-10-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 07:53 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 07:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I agree that not having a recollection of driving on a common road is no bizarre thing. But I also know myself. Even now, years later, if I don't pay attention, it gets dangerous quick, even on familiar roads.

The radio wasn't a distraction. Everything else that happened is what kept my mind off of the road. The radio was more like a before and after thing. The station didn't get static or fade in and out from interference. There was no audible interference. The chances of me turning analog knobs to the same volume and sound level while not being able to here the radio at all are very slim.

So some want to say I was experiencing some sort of hallucination or crazy spell or something, and that interference caused radio malfunctions at the same time. That isn't too likely either. No one has even given an opinion on what could have caused the delusion. I was sober and not stressed. I had been clean for some time.

So what could cause an analog radio to smoothly fade out to nothing, still have power, and fade back in in the same manner minutes after the knobs had been adjusted. I've dealt with interference and driving out of range of a station before, but that wasn't the case as this was a station I regularly listened to after work. There weren't many to choose from there. I've even heard people's partial phone conversations come through the radio, but again, this wasn't static or interference. It was as if the volume slowly and evenly went down, and when things settled it came back up.

Since that day I do not believe in coincidence and there is no evidence that coincidences or chance are real.

Me knowing it was GOD in some form had nothing to do with the radio. When all my burdens and pain and hatred instantly left me immediately after the radio faded out, and I was filled with joy and peace that I had never even known possible, let alone experienced before, I began thanking GOD with tears running down my face. There was never any question as to what produced the elation, even before things started being presented to me. After that point, if I needed proof that it was GOD, which I did not, the the nature of the things that came into my mind where that proof. It is hard to pinpoint why I just new it was GOD. It is hard to describe because things weren't exactly audible or spoken, but it was understood that it was GOD. Even if I hadn't grasped it on an intellectual level, my subconscious did as I was crying like a baby. I never knew what tears of joy were. I didn't really think it was a real thing. But they are.

Before this happened I was a very emotionally dead person for the most part. I do not recall ever out right crying after childhood... Until that moment as a 30 year old man.

Being an atheist; I wouldn't have naturally drawn the conclusion that it was GOD. But as I said, it was irrefutable, and if you can't tell from my posts; I'm pretty hard headed. If there was an explanation needed, then I would have found one that matched. Even though it wasn't needed to me, I still looked into things that it could have been. But the descriptors and prerequisites won't match at all in most cases.

What other thing would it have been in your opinion?

I didn't mean to be short with your earlier either, I apologize; I get that way at times from dealing with others, and didn't mean to put you in the same category as them. Still not an excuse and I do apologise.

I value your opinion and look forward to your reply.

Peace


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No matter how much you think you "know" it was God, the fact remains that you decided it was God. Think of it this way. Imagine a world where the concept of God never existed, was never discussed, or even imagined. Yet, in reality, a God was out there that no one knew anything about. If that God made its presence known to you in the way that you described, you would not have concluded it was God, because no such concept would have been preconceived in your mind. You simply wouldn't have known what that experience was.

Back to this reality, what you experienced was simply something you couldn't explain - no more and no less - and you interpreted that experience as a sign or communication from God because the concept of God was already known to you and you couldn't find an alternative more plausible explanation. But if you have never met or seen God, how would you know anything about God to "know" this experience was God? You wouldn't. This experience in some way fit your preconception about God and therefore you decided at some level (maybe even unconsciously) that this was from God.
I see what you are saying. And perhaps this is the case. But it would have happened instantly with no noticed thought process.

The thing is that my preconception of God other than that it didn't exist were non existent.

I had no clue as to the nature of GOD as it pertains to man.

I did not know of mercy, or benevolence and surely had no clue that all was ordained or that God had been wholly aware of the happenings of my life prior to my very conception.

These things I hadn't heard of. Unlike many here, I did not study about what I didn't believe in and had very little contact with the religious. None really that spoke of the attributes of GOD.

If I had a mold for God to fit into then yes.

But again this simply wasn't the case.

All I had, at some previous point, months before, was I small inkling of hope.

The rest was completely new to me.

Peace

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11-10-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(11-10-2016 08:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 07:25 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Hahahaha! I knew it, you just proved how bad your memory is, look at posts 36,65 and 67.
Sure, sure

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So if your memory is this poor, why should anyone put any credence into anything you claim based from that?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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