Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
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09-10-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 07:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 07:27 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Maybe circumstantial evidence, at best. I think its more telling that so many people have believed in gods and yet not a single person has produced any hard evidence. Which shows to me evidence that the human brain is easily deluded, not that gods exist.
Thank your for admitting that it does qualify as some sort of evidence on some level. Your honesty is greatly appreciated.



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I just thought i'd throw you a bone (however tiny...) since every time i see you on here you're getting verbally raped by others far smarter than i am.
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09-10-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
kinda like what unfogged just did. actually that was more of an intellectual rape.
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09-10-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 07:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 07:27 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Maybe circumstantial evidence, at best. I think its more telling that so many people have believed in gods and yet not a single person has produced any hard evidence. Which shows to me evidence that the human brain is easily deluded, not that gods exist.
Thank your for admitting that it does qualify as some sort of evidence on some level. Your honesty is greatly appreciated.

Quote-mining, on the other hand, is not being honest. The evidence doesn't lead to the conclusion that a god exists; it leads to the conclusion that people are easily deluded.

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09-10-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 07:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 06:59 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Sorry, that dog doesn't hunt. Saying "prove your god exists" is not the same as "I don't believe a god exists."
I didn't say those were the same. Where did you get that?

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I didn't say you did, I just pointed out the difference between the two.
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09-10-2016, 08:01 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2016 08:09 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 07:33 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 07:23 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Argumentum ad populum, Argument from popularity - what could possibly go wrong?

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Woe....I'm not saying that the belief of the masses makes a thing true by any means. I was simply asking if one considers the testimony of literally billions of people to be of no worth as any sort of evidence whatsoever.

Based on my examples the answer is obviously NO. You can line up everyone who ever believed that the Earth is flat from here until infinity and they would all still be wrong.

Testimony is NOT Evidence.

When one person makes a claim without supporting evidence it can be discarded just as expeditiously as one made by millions of people making the same unevidenced claim.

ps I once thought like you. The argument from popularity was one of the last things I discarded before coming to grips that the god delusion was a fanciful tale invented by scared, hairless monkeys to assuage their fears.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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09-10-2016, 08:02 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 07:46 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 07:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Thank your for admitting that it does qualify as some sort of evidence on some level. Your honesty is greatly appreciated.

Quote-mining, on the other hand, is not being honest. The evidence doesn't lead to the conclusion that a god exists; it leads to the conclusion that people are easily deluded.

I was going to point that out, but... Eh. It was still technically evidence on some level!
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09-10-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 07:33 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Woe....I'm not saying that the belief of the masses makes a thing true by any means. I was simply asking if one considers the testimony of literally billions of people to be of no worth as any sort of evidence whatsoever.

Based on my examples the answer is obviously NO. You can line up everyone who ever believed that the Earth is flat from here until infinity and they would all still be wrong.

Testimony is NOT Evidence.

When one person makes a claim without supporting evidence it can be discarded just as expeditiously as one made by millions of people making the same unevidenced claim.

ps I once thought like you. The argument from popularity was one of the last things I discarded before coming to grips that the god delusion was a fanciful tale invented by scared, hairless monkeys to assuage their fears.
That's cool, but my beliefs in no way are from the beliefs of the masses. In fact; I am generally considered a heretic and the masses don't even generally consider me of the faithful. Speaking of orthodox Christians.

Again; I wasn't saying that a view must be true by default because the majority believe it. We where speaking of any sort of evidence, and though a majority believing a thing doesn't as a necessity make that thing true; it is some sort of evidence. Not empirical or testable through scientific terms perhaps, but still some level of evidence in my opinion.

It is obvious that in many cases the majority can be and often is wrong.

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09-10-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 08:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-10-2016 08:01 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Based on my examples the answer is obviously NO. You can line up everyone who ever believed that the Earth is flat from here until infinity and they would all still be wrong.

Testimony is NOT Evidence.

When one person makes a claim without supporting evidence it can be discarded just as expeditiously as one made by millions of people making the same unevidenced claim.

ps I once thought like you. The argument from popularity was one of the last things I discarded before coming to grips that the god delusion was a fanciful tale invented by scared, hairless monkeys to assuage their fears.
That's cool, but my beliefs in no way are from the beliefs of the masses. In fact; I am generally considered a heretic and the masses don't even generally consider me of the faithful. Speaking of orthodox Christians.

Again; I wasn't saying that a view must be true by default because the majority believe it. We where speaking of any sort of evidence, and though a majority believing a thing doesn't as a necessity make that thing true; it is some sort of evidence. Not empirical or testable through scientific terms perhaps, but still some level of evidence in my opinion.

It is obvious that in many cases the majority can be and often is wrong.

Peace

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That doesn't really mean anything. Its evidence but not evidence of what you're looking for. You're grasping for straws that don't exist.
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09-10-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
Was it evidence that so many people believed the earth was flat? Sure! Evidence that they were a bunch of ignorant fucks, not that the earth was flat.
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09-10-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Arguments against religion, not to defend atheism?
(09-10-2016 06:30 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  A debate is between two parties, both of which are equally burdened with the argument of their own point.

You don't argue the other's side point when you debate? It's far more informative that way. How about I'll argue for theism and you argue for atheism. We'll both learn more that way.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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