Arguments agaisnt Materialism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-02-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 12:07 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  "Quantities" is our own model, again. Reality is just reality. We interpret it. Or rather, we interpret our brain's interpretation of it.

A "quantity" is an abstract concept, by which we try to model and understand reality. Quantities don't literally exist. The things that exist, exist. We can use whatever ideas we find useful to try and model those things.

You keep making definitive statements about reality, and that is your mistake.

I don't really understand how to interpret anything you say under this system. "Quantities is our own model, again." Under your system this is just an arbitrary meaningless statement. It's just an assertion within your system. Quantities are only a model in your model. If I observe your syntax, you're making a truth claim. If I take the content of what you say, I'm to understand that you aren't making a truth claim. You're not saying anything about reality. You're saying something about your system. Anyone could just reject your system. You need a more stable epistemology.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 12:11 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  You don't know, and there is no way out of it. We can only accept that we can model, or we can make assumptions.

How do you know this? This is just your model.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
Quantities are an aspect of our models.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 11:36 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 11:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So many non-sequiturs.
It is "easy to imagine" all kinds of bullshit that does not obtain in reality.
So far it's an argument against nothing.

I don't think you understand what's being said. It isn't necessary that a certain brain state causes a certain emotion.

Actually it is. If the IDENTICAL brain states obtain, then yes it does, AND we can watch "similar" brain states in PET scans.
If it isn't identical, then you're talking about nothing.
It is nothing, as neither you nor anyone will ever get two brain states to be identical.

You know NOTHING about Neuro-science, (and neither does the author of your piece).

Nothing to see here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 12:18 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Quantities are an aspect of our models.

If there is no quantity outside of our abstract system, then our system can't explain reality. There must be a property of things that we can call quantity.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 12:31 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
I'm going to give up debating you for a while as it clearly goes nowhere.

Let me just say that I never, ever mean to make statements of certainty. About anything. However, I often use shorthand. I don't qualify every single statement I ever make with a paragraph of pre-amble about the inherent impossibility of knowing anything for certain. But everyone can assume that it is there, and that I would more carefully qualify any statement I make if need be.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
21-02-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 12:19 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 12:18 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Quantities are an aspect of our models.

If there is no quantity outside of our abstract system, then our system can't explain reality. There must be a property of things that we can call quantity.

Wrong.
Our systems don't "explain reality".
Our systems LEARN to approximate it to various degrees .....
"aspects of our models", ...... (see above) all which have errors, and no two are identical. Ever.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
21-02-2017, 01:19 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
I feel like Nails and I are looking at things from almost entirely diametrically opposite viewpoints. And I feel one of us is going about things totally wrong. I just hope it isn't me!

I can't seem to get on the same wavelength, no matter what I do.

This is just an observation, not a criticism.

All I would like, ultimately, is for Nails to admit that he might be wrong. Not that he is wrong, but that he might be. I'll consider my life's work a success if I ever get that far.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 01:29 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 01:19 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  I feel like Nails and I are looking at things from almost entirely diametrically opposite viewpoints. And I feel one of us is going about things totally wrong. I just hope it isn't me!

I can't seem to get on the same wavelength, no matter what I do.

This is just an observation, not a criticism.

All I would like, ultimately, is for Nails to admit that he might be wrong. Not that he is wrong, but that he might be. I'll consider my life's work a success if I ever get that far.

I could be wrong about many things. But I do think that it's possible to have infallible knowledge.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2017, 01:31 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(21-02-2017 12:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually it is. If the IDENTICAL brain states obtain, then yes it does, AND we can watch "similar" brain states in PET scans.
If it isn't identical, then you're talking about nothing.
It is nothing, as neither you nor anyone will ever get two brain states to be identical.

You know NOTHING about Neuro-science, (and neither does the author of your piece).

Nothing to see here.

If you're going to continue to employ ad hominem, I think it might be appropriate to respond with a fallacy myself. Here it goes. You do realize there are neuroscientists that are dualists right?

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: