Arguments agaisnt Materialism
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06-04-2017, 07:15 AM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 06:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think you're desperate to hang on to one last straw of theism, even though you know how idiotic it is, so you can "fit in" in Kentucky, the intellectual butt of the universe. You've failed here. Your paper is shit. You have no arguments. And now "oh I know, I'll make a video. That's the ticket."

I have no interest in fitting in. Again, for the majority of my life, I've been an anti-theist.

Quote:Start answering the questions put to you.
You said you would if you were told how chemicals make you happy.
That was done, (in my link). You think you know more than a Neuro-physiologist ?
Get busy.

Your link failed to fully reduce happiness into material mechanism. The reduction has never been done.

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06-04-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(05-04-2017 11:19 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(05-04-2017 08:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What is woo is the idea that there actually exists a difference between
"one is qualitative and the other is merely mechanical process", and everything that flows from that bullshit. There is no evidence for it. You can't say what the difference is, or how you know what the difference is.

No one in Psychology (or those who study learning or brain processes and brain functions) EVER talks in those terms.

You didn't answer any of the questions. None.
Get busy.
You have pages of them.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what it feels like to be happy while only speaking in terms of material mechanism. Good luck.

Transparent attempt at shifting the burden of proof. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-04-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(05-04-2017 11:34 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(05-04-2017 11:29 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.


Hehe... We had a little discussion about that.

There's some 5 milligram bottles you should be able to take for happiness. Wink

Thumbsup

Drugs that make you happy are not identical to the feeling of happiness. I think everyone here can agree to that.

No, we can't. Dopamine is dopamine, glutamate is glutamate, oxytocin is oxytocin.

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06-04-2017, 09:19 AM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(05-04-2017 11:53 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(05-04-2017 11:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  In other words, it is a distinction without a difference.

The idea of a distinction without a difference has its roots in a weak form Leibniz's law of indiscernibles. That is to say that two things are identical iff they share all the same properties. A chemical reaction does not share the same properties as emotion and, therefore, the two cannot be identical.

Yet another bold and unsupported statement. Emotions can be induced chemically and electrically that are indistinguishable from "real" ones.

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06-04-2017, 09:19 AM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 12:37 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 12:23 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.


Consider

Then given such a statement there's a nuance in your thinking that I am sadly failing to grasp. Sad

How soon until you're off work? We could call to discuss this.

You silly boy. Peebothuhul is always at work.
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06-04-2017, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2017 10:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 07:01 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 06:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think you're desperate to hang on to one last straw of theism, even though you know how idiotic it is, so you can "fit in" in Kentucky, the intellectual butt of the universe. You've failed here. Your paper is shit. You have no arguments. And now "oh I know, I'll make a video. That's the ticket."

Fuck.

Start answering the questions put to you.
You said you would if you were told how chemicals make you happy.
That was done, (in my link). You think you know more than a Neuro-physiologist ?
Get busy.

Finally you said it. You think dualism is a remnant of theism. And that is why you are unwilling to change your position. That's why, even though I've explained countless times how you have a difficult problem, you ignore me and shout about my ignorance of neuroscience. Bucky if you ever want to actually learn something about my position, please do some research. I've given plenty of links and you brush them aside. Perhaps it's time for you to read one of those Stanford articles. Otherwise I do believe I'm wasting my time here.

No. Dualism is shit all by itself.
You have NOT ONE SHRED of evidence for it. You ARE wasting your time here... an ignorant fool , with NOT ONE SHRED of education on the topic, with NO KNOWLEDGE of how brains operate, and why they do what they do, *preaching* his ignorant bullshit, linking us to crap from Philosophy and NOT Neuro-science. How utterly idiotic.

Quote:Drugs that make you happy are not identical to the feeling of happiness. I think everyone here can agree to that.

Of course they aren't you idiot. No one says they are. The fact you would even say that, demonstrates YET AGAIN, your profound ignorance of this topic. Stop making a fool of yourself.

Read and learn child.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/d...rugs-brain

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06-04-2017, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2017 09:43 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(05-04-2017 11:53 PM)Naielis Wrote:  The idea of a distinction without a difference has its roots in a weak form Leibniz's law of indiscernibles. That is to say that two things are identical iff they share all the same properties. A chemical reaction does not share the same properties as emotion and, therefore, the two cannot be identical.

Fallacy of the false analogy. Straw-man. Lie. More ignorance of brain chemistry.
No one said chemicals and emotions are the same, you fucking idiot.
I said "seeing red" and "what it is like seeing red" are the same thing.
Your reading comprehension is crap.
Your ignorance is astounding.

I've read your Holy Texts from Stanford. I REJECT them. Philosophers speculating in the dark about how brains work. What a fucking JOKE.

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06-04-2017, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2017 11:08 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 07:15 AM)Naielis Wrote:  I have no interest in fitting in. Again, for the majority of my life, I've been an anti-theist.

Too bad you're an ignorant one.
You're delusional. Obviously you care a great deal. You go ON AND ON about your program and your teachers' credentials. The paper you wrote was an obvious attempt to court their approval.

Quote:Start answering the questions put to you.
You said you would if you were told how chemicals make you happy.
That was done, (in my link). You think you know more than a Neuro-physiologist ?
Get busy.

Quote:Your link failed to fully reduce happiness into material mechanism. The reduction has never been done.

Nor will it EVER be done. It simply is what it is. Asking for a "reduction" (the very use of those inappropriate words for this situation) implies that it involves more than it does, AND you have no REASON to even ask that question. Physical processes explain all there is, and all that we know. You're starting from a false premise, (your woo position) and asking me to start there also. I REJECT your premise. It's complete crap. You have no reason to ask the "reduction" question. It's ignorance.
You never said it had to "be reduced" for you to answer, you dishonest liar. You have already been told there is no "reduction" possible. It is what it is. Asking for "reduction" IS AN IGNORANT QUESTION. No Neuro-scientist asks that question.
You have NEVER ONCE said what IS NOT explained by what we know about the physical processes. You're like a 2 year old, saying over and over "But why mommy, but why mommy". You've memorized your Stanford Bible, and all you can do is quote verses from it, instead of thinking for yourself. Asking for a 'reduction' (a change) in a known process, would produce SOMETHING ELSE, you idiot. IT's as complex as it is, and as it needs to be. The process IS WHAT IT IS. It can neither be enhanced or reduced to get the same outcome.
The reaction produces the experience. Over and over. Chemically. Repeatably. Testably. Complex processes have MULTIPLE elements / factors. Asking for a "reduction" tells me you have no clue how complex the subject is.

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06-04-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 06:02 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 05:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I give zero fucks about your video. I'm not getting into a YouTube debate, not when we have a perfectly good forum.

If you cannot put it into words, well, that sounds like a you problem.

No one's forcing you to watch it. And why so hostile towards the idea of a video? You can't listen to someone talk?

I'm I doing to listen to a mind-body dualist crank at work? No, I am not.

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06-04-2017, 09:39 PM
RE: Arguments agaisnt Materialism
(06-04-2017 07:01 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Finally you said it. You think dualism is a remnant of theism.

Because it is. The soul is bunk. We have no reason to think there is anything else there doing the work except our grey matter. If you have evidence in favor of a hitherto unknown and undetectable mechanism to explain a dualistic model that also comports with all the evidence we already have for neuroscience (fMRI studies, chemical manipulation, decreased function tied to physical trauma, etc.) and explains it better than current models, then present it already, and get your Noble Prize.

But we're all pretty sure that if you were really sitting atop such a horde of groundbreaking research, you wouldn't be here acting like a pissant on an atheist forum.


(06-04-2017 07:01 AM)Naielis Wrote:  And that is why you are unwilling to change your position.

Cause your evidence is nonexistent, and just asking 'what if?' doesn't magically move the burden of proof.


(06-04-2017 07:01 AM)Naielis Wrote:  That's why, even though I've explained countless times how you have a difficult problem, you ignore me and shout about my ignorance of neuroscience.

Because it's evident with every post you make.


(06-04-2017 07:01 AM)Naielis Wrote:  Bucky if you ever want to actually learn something about my position, please do some research. I've given plenty of links and you brush them aside. Perhaps it's time for you to read one of those Stanford articles. Otherwise I do believe I'm wasting my time here.

You are indeed wasting time... Drinking Beverage

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