Arguments for the existence of god.
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20-10-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 10:55 AM)Sirhu Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 08:21 AM)theBorg Wrote:  He has the level of Steven Hawking Smartass, as it seems. Could you give us link to the interesting debate? Smile

Well, it's in portuguese, and I am just translating what he is saying.

You do translate it perfectly! Looks, like you completely understood the "dude".

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20-10-2016, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2016 09:31 PM by theBorg.)
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
The fine-tuning argument is very powerful. Many brave atheists were defeated. R.I.P. But the remaining atheists could try to find the defense of the organization (P.S. the global atheism is organized through the internet: you all are asking for advise, or share it here, when a Christian is debating with you). Let us see. The humanity is used to broad range of temperatures, atmospheric pressure, wind velocities, etc. The only problem of fine-tuning argument is the death (so called "natural" death of the humans, or a violent one), but this is rejected by the belief in the original sin. Can we find anything, what is hostile to human life? Or at least to find that it must be (and, what is important, can be) "better fine-tuned"?
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20-10-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 09:18 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The fine-tuning argument is very powerful. Many brave atheists were defeated. R.I.P. But the remaining atheists could try to find the defense of the organization (P.S. the global atheism is organized through the internet: you all are asking for advise, or share it here, when a Christian is debating with you). Let us see. The humanity is used to broad range of temperatures, atmospheric pressure, wind velocities, etc. The only problem of fine-tuning argument is the death (so called "natural" death of the humans, or a violent one), but this is rejected by the belief in the original sin. Can we find anything, what is hostile to human life? Or at least to find that it must be (and, what is important, can be) "better fine-tuned"?

Oh Borgy, it’s not that you are so wrong, it is the frequency that is startling.

Read this and see if you understand the lesson of the parable.

“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'

This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.” ~ Douglas Adams

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-10-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 09:18 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The fine-tuning argument is very powerful. Many brave atheists were defeated. R.I.P. But the remaining atheists could try to find the defense of the organization (P.S. the global atheism is organized through the internet: you all are asking for advise, or share it here, when a Christian is debating with you). Let us see. The humanity is used to broad range of temperatures, atmospheric pressure, wind velocities, etc. The only problem of fine-tuning argument is the death (so called "natural" death of the humans, or a violent one), but this is rejected by the belief in the original sin. Can we find anything, what is hostile to human life? Or at least to find that it must be (and, what is important, can be) "better fine-tuned"?

Reporting spam.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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20-10-2016, 11:40 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 09:57 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 09:18 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The fine-tuning argument is very powerful. Many brave atheists were defeated. R.I.P. ........

Reporting spam.

An atheist can spam his "arshe" out, but if theist says a thing twice - ban for life?
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21-10-2016, 12:39 AM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 11:40 PM)theBorg Wrote:  An atheist can spam his "arshe" out, but if theist says a thing twice - ban for life?

You still here?

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NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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21-10-2016, 03:41 AM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
No matter what type of food I put in my fridge, it all seems finely tuned to grow mold after a week or more.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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21-10-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(20-10-2016 09:18 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The fine-tuning argument is very powerful. Many brave atheists were defeated. R.I.P. But the remaining atheists could try to find the defense of the organization (P.S. the global atheism is organized through the internet: you all are asking for advise, or share it here, when a Christian is debating with you). Let us see. The humanity is used to broad range of temperatures, atmospheric pressure, wind velocities, etc. The only problem of fine-tuning argument is the death (so called "natural" death of the humans, or a violent one), but this is rejected by the belief in the original sin. Can we find anything, what is hostile to human life? Or at least to find that it must be (and, what is important, can be) "better fine-tuned"?

Yes.....to people who already believe in invisible sky wizard.

To everyone else....it's easily explained. Why the very fact you call it "fine tuning" gives away your inherent bias going in.
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23-10-2016, 11:45 PM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
Excessive exposure to the sun can cause cancer.

A mentally handicapped boy over feeds his fish till it dies.

God is a mentally handicapped boy.
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24-10-2016, 12:23 AM
RE: Arguments for the existence of god.
(18-10-2016 04:23 PM)Sirhu Wrote:  Recently, I've been debating with a theist and he presented 3 arguments that I found really interesting, and I would like to see if I could find a solution for them here. Huh

1. Because without a necessary being you do not have an explanation for the existence of the contingent universe, or the great fact conjuntivi contingent. You then abandon the principle of sufficient reason (which is absurd and leads to disastrous consequences, besides being pure atheistic retreat), or admit theism, or take a Spinozist pantheism (which brings its own very serious consequences, does not explain everything and, anyway, it would no longer be atheism).

2. The second point is not the argument of fine tuning. Fine tuning is an additional argument and also provides more strength to my point, but I refer to the more general teleology that can be found in nature, something like the fifth way of Saint Thomas or the argument of nomic regularity of Swinburne; any causal order already requires an order of explanation that can not be purely fortuitous, and can not explain all this only through natural laws - after all, the natural laws themselves are merely descriptive, describe the order of final causes and regularities we observe in nature. Fine tuning, which is another argument, also provides an additional support to what I said - not just the universe brings order in its foundation (which could be observed even if the whole reality only involved two poles attracting or repelling regularly for example), but it brings an absurdly rare order that allowed the appearence of some kind of life as we, against absolutely overwhelming majority of hostile scenarios to any existence of life in any space.

3. The third refers to the fact of the soul / human mind (you name it) resist any reductionism or explanations of supervening material, it can not be explained merely as a natural emergency material processes which would be sufficient. That is, human intelligence itself - the proper semantic capacity, mean, abstract immaterial universal concepts, etc. - must have its explanation in a being with special power to create such immaterial rationality. Only an evolutionary process, for example, may not be enough for the emergence of intelligence as human, that is effectively separated from the other higher animals by a true abyss.


First off, all 3 are relative word salad.


1 - Presupposes that such a being is necessary. If such a being can exist without reason or explanation, than so can a universe. Occam Razor favors the explanation that makes less assumptions. If they can accept an uncaused being that created the universe, an uncaused universe makes less assumptions and is thus more probable. They need to stop pretending to 'know' things they do not actually 'know'.

2 - The universe is vast and ancient, and incredibly rare and improbably things happen in it all the fucking time. Nothing supernatural is needed to explain this. Their attempt at an explanation is merely inserting their preferred belief to fill in for their ignorance of statistics and probability.

3 - That's simply them inserting their presupposition into the gaps of knowledge. Duality has been disproved beyond any reasonable doubt, and although we do not currently have a complete and all encompassing understanding of consciousness, all evidence points to it being an emergent property of our brains (no magic required).

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