Aristotle's Four Causes
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07-12-2016, 11:38 PM
Aristotle's Four Causes
So now they are coming at me with "Aristotle's Four Causes" which I never heard of until now. (Yes, I studied Aristotle in college.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aristotle's Four Causes are bullshit. Your opinion?

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08-12-2016, 01:22 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
Not bullshit ... just old.

To save me some typing, the four are:
wikipedia Wrote:Matter: a change or movement's material "cause", is the aspect of the change or movement which is determined by the material that composes the moving or changing things. For a table, that might be wood; for a statue, that might be bronze or marble.
Form: a change or movement's formal "cause", is a change or movement caused by the arrangement, shape or appearance of the thing changing or moving. Aristotle says for example that the ratio 2:1, and number in general, is the cause of the octave.
Agent: a change or movement's efficient or moving "cause", consists of things apart from the thing being changed or moved, which interact so as to be an agency of the change or movement. For example, the efficient cause of a table is a carpenter, or a person working as one, and according to Aristotle the efficient cause of a boy is a father.
End or purpose: a change or movement's final "cause", is that for the sake of which a thing is what it is. For a seed, it might be an adult plant. For a sailboat, it might be sailing. For a ball at the top of a ramp, it might be coming to rest at the bottom.

The word 'cause' is better translated as 'explanation' i.e. the 4 whys.

Since Darwin's pulling of the rug from under humanity's feet, the favoured terms for 'why' have become to be proximate ("how come?") and ultimate ("what for?").

So the first three (matter, form and agent) would be parts of the proximate explanation and the fourth (purpose) would be the ultimate explanation.

Consider also 'agent' as being in a wider sense the environment that impacts evolution or for an individual component or entity, its umvelt.

(07-12-2016 11:38 PM)f stop Wrote:  So now they are coming at me ...

I don't know who are the 'they' who are coming at you with this or why it's useful to their case but maybe you can remind them of how long ago Aristotle died and that back then, they still thought there were only five senses.

Big Grin

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08-12-2016, 01:37 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
(08-12-2016 01:22 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I don't know who are the 'they' who are coming at you with this or why it's useful to their case but maybe you can remind them of how long ago Aristotle died and that back then, they still thought there were only five senses.

Big Grin

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08-12-2016, 01:41 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
Aristotle also thought there were five elements:
  • Air
  • Fire
  • Water
  • Earth
  • Aether

That idea went out of the window in the 18th century.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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08-12-2016, 01:42 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
Aristotle were a smart boy, but there's been a lot of progress since then.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-12-2016, 02:25 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
(07-12-2016 11:38 PM)f stop Wrote:  So now they are coming at me with "Aristotle's Four Causes" which I never heard of until now. (Yes, I studied Aristotle in college.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aristotle's Four Causes are bullshit. Your opinion?

Dear friends, please tell me the place of the original debate. I think, this is ripped from the necessary context.
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08-12-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
(07-12-2016 11:38 PM)f stop Wrote:  So now they are coming at me with "Aristotle's Four Causes" which I never heard of until now. (Yes, I studied Aristotle in college.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aristotle's Four Causes are bullshit. Your opinion?

Ask them why Aristotle called it "final cause" instead of "original cause". That'll keep 'em busy long enough to make your escape.

#sigh
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08-12-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
(08-12-2016 05:45 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 11:38 PM)f stop Wrote:  So now they are coming at me with "Aristotle's Four Causes" which I never heard of until now. (Yes, I studied Aristotle in college.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aristotle's Four Causes are bullshit. Your opinion?

Ask them why Aristotle called it "final cause" instead of "original cause". That'll keep 'em busy long enough to make your escape.

But you know the secret answer?
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08-12-2016, 10:41 PM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
Facepalm FFS, why is somebody's drunken uncle still allowed to stagger around the forum, puking on the carpet? Does he have a shit ton of money that some one here is going to inherit? Huh
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08-12-2016, 11:37 PM
RE: Aristotle's Four Causes
(08-12-2016 02:25 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 11:38 PM)f stop Wrote:  So now they are coming at me with "Aristotle's Four Causes" which I never heard of until now. (Yes, I studied Aristotle in college.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aristotle's Four Causes are bullshit. Your opinion?

Dear friends, please tell me the place of the original debate. I think, this is ripped from the necessary context.
The Athenian academy?

The western world got too caught up in just accepting aristotle as grand gospel in these ways that it held back a lot of better inquiry for too long. His natural philosophy topics aren't much of anything of reality touching.

Now aristotle on friendship and love is more interesting philosophizing.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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