Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
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16-04-2012, 05:24 PM
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
I don't care if it is an elective or not. Last time I checked the teacher, books, and classroom that electives are taught in are funded by the public.

Now, if this is a COMPLETELY UNBIASED COURSE, I might feel more lenient toward it. Examples of being unbiased would include talks about how the Christians crusades were bad, how scientists were killed and progress in education was delayed etc... But if the class wants to speak spiritually about how Jesus did work miracles, and how everything within the bible is historical facts, then this can go to the shitter.

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16-04-2012, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2012 06:12 PM by Antirepublican.)
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
(16-04-2012 09:04 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(16-04-2012 07:46 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  Edit: Sorry, I this has already been passed through the House and Senate. Yay...

Obvious problems:

>Public schools, so tax payer money
>Christian Bible, while neglecting others

Thus, this is a serious breach of the Establishment clause. And, as always, the religious are having a hard time understanding that.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12...22129.html

First, it's an elective. Second, it's more of a Bible history course.
Third, I am still (obviously) vehemently opposed to this.
4th You know the majority of teachers will ignore #1 and #2 and teach Christianity,
5th There are religion courses that are completely neutral, which are obviously much better option.


(16-04-2012 02:22 PM)AnotherSinner Wrote:  
(16-04-2012 02:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  Sinner, it's got a bill number and it's been voted on. Can't get much more definite than that Wink The article links to sources too.
(edited to add smiley 'cos don't wanna be all down on you Tongue)

Hard to believe but ja, these things happen Tongue

I love this quote:Missing the point. Public school. If you don't wanna deprive the little kiddies then you can't deprive them of the glories of the Koran or the God Delusion either. EEeeeeequal treatment for religion, and no religion is more equal than others.
This is an elective...they are doing electives now outside of college? When...wow...so behind the times. When did this happen? Hope this is an elective and not a required course. Pushing beliefs is not going to do anything but cause resentment.
You are also forced to take electives too though. You can't just go out back behind the school and smoke during one period.
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16-04-2012, 08:51 PM
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
(16-04-2012 06:07 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  
(16-04-2012 09:04 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  First, it's an elective. Second, it's more of a Bible history course.
Third, I am still (obviously) vehemently opposed to this.
4th You know the majority of teachers will ignore #1 and #2 and teach Christianity,
5th There are religion courses that are completely neutral, which are obviously much better option.


(16-04-2012 02:22 PM)AnotherSinner Wrote:  This is an elective...they are doing electives now outside of college? When...wow...so behind the times. When did this happen? Hope this is an elective and not a required course. Pushing beliefs is not going to do anything but cause resentment.
You are also forced to take electives too though. You can't just go out back behind the school and smoke during one period.
Very true...I chose FCCLA and Spanish....those were the days.... as I said before faith or lack thereof should not be forced on anyone.

A man's greatest pitfall is none other than himself. For only he can dig himself a hole he cannot get out of.
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16-04-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
(16-04-2012 09:04 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  January 18, 2012: House Bill 2563, sponsored by Rep. Terri Proud, R-Tucson, allows public and charter schools to offer a high-school elective called "The Bible and Its Influence on Western Culture." The course must address the influence of the Old and the New Testaments on laws, history, government, literature, art, music, customs, morals, values and culture. In an email, Proud seems to be promoting her bill to teach the Bible by saying high school students who have biblical knowledge have higher GPAs than the average student who doesn’t read the Bible.
Ok, why are we in such a snit? This can also be seen as a good thing.

First) Reading the Bible is the number 1 way of turning people into Atheists.

B) Read the title of the course...is anyone here saying the Bible has not had influence Western Culture?

Look at Point B) This point answers the silly question of "Why are they only proposing the Bible be taught and not the Koran and other religious texts?" Last I heard, the Koran and other religious texts haven't had as much influence on Western Culture.

Next) I would agree that people who have read the Bible COULD possibly have higher GPA's. Have we become blinded to the amount of literature, music, laws and food recipes that contain references from the Bible?

Two) I made up that part about recipes to be funny. Then again, I suppose a case could be made for locust and honey.

Z) I'll let Richard Dawkins have the last word from The God Delusion (2006)...Ok, so I listened to it as an audiobook so I don't have a written copy to quote from. But he devotes a section to the seemingly endless litany of phrases, words, and sayings that are part of Western Culture that derive from the Bible. Not knowing what the Bible is, causes all of these other literary and musical pieces to lose their meaning.

Finally) Daniel Dennett suggests that all religions be taught to all children so they can see the fallacies in them all. So I'm assuming his only problem with this course is that it stops with the Bible. For that reason, I oppose this proposition as not going far enough.

Let the babble continue...

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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17-04-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
If anyone wants to get active in tracking proposals and bills through Congress you can go to https://www.popvox.com/

There you can sign up, weigh in on issues in both houses, and even send letters about them directly to your senators or congressperson. It will tell you who they are, and has an immense amount of info as well as outside sources so you can research and think for yourself. I highly recommend it.
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17-04-2012, 05:41 PM
RE: Arizona, the Bible to be taught in public schools
The problem with reading the bible in the company of Christians is that children are taught to think about the text in an acceptable way rather than taking it for what it is and what it actually says.

When children with no understanding of genocide read the old testament they are able to argue themselves into thinking that what is recorded was right because God said so. This is part of the process of learning that even things that everyone knows and everyone accepts are wrong - those things are ok if God says so. That's programming that takes a long time to unwind.
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