Arminianisn and Calvinism.
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23-01-2012, 09:05 PM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
(23-01-2012 07:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 02:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...so that God’s will could be done according to His choice but not based on ANY work, God chose to love one and hate the other. Paul even knew that this would cause questions, so he further addresses it by saying God’s choice is His own and He only answers to Himself. He will have mercy on whom He wants and He will damn others so that His purpose can be served (Pharaoh).

So, in closing, it is my belief that salvation is not up to a choice made by anyone. God chooses salvation. He chose those who would be saved from the beginning. Also, there is no such thing as freewill.

And this is all based on a feeling and a work of fiction.

You're a work of fiction.

There's enough to that statement to warrant a touché. Bravo, Christian.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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23-01-2012, 11:04 PM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
(23-01-2012 07:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 02:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...so that God’s will could be done according to His choice but not based on ANY work, God chose to love one and hate the other. Paul even knew that this would cause questions, so he further addresses it by saying God’s choice is His own and He only answers to Himself. He will have mercy on whom He wants and He will damn others so that His purpose can be served (Pharaoh).

So, in closing, it is my belief that salvation is not up to a choice made by anyone. God chooses salvation. He chose those who would be saved from the beginning. Also, there is no such thing as freewill.

And this is all based on a feeling and a work of fiction.

You're a work of fiction.

Witty and insightful. Not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-01-2012, 11:59 PM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
(23-01-2012 11:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 07:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 02:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...so that God’s will could be done according to His choice but not based on ANY work, God chose to love one and hate the other. Paul even knew that this would cause questions, so he further addresses it by saying God’s choice is His own and He only answers to Himself. He will have mercy on whom He wants and He will damn others so that His purpose can be served (Pharaoh).

So, in closing, it is my belief that salvation is not up to a choice made by anyone. God chooses salvation. He chose those who would be saved from the beginning. Also, there is no such thing as freewill.

And this is all based on a feeling and a work of fiction.

You're a work of fiction.

Witty and insightful. Not.

Hi. I'm 1991. How have you been?

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24-01-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
(08-01-2012 04:07 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  There are two distinct lines of thinking relating to the human condition to be found in these largely opposing doctrines, both of which are expressed since the earliest times of Christianity.

Arminianism the position held by old time Bible thumper Billy Graham holds that the death of Jesus provided a second chance for all sinners who, by faith in Him, maintained or reaffirmed, would be judged favourably. The Bible also tells us that faith without works is dead a statement that seems to nullify the faith alone contention. Paul was critical of the Galatians because he saw them placing works ahead of the saving grace provides by Jesus. Works and faith have always been a contentious issue

Calvinism is really a misnomer as many better known teachers such as Augustine and Aquinas had more or less supported this line of thinking; though of course, many current theologians will read something quite different into the messages rendered. Essentially Calvinism holds that a select group are earmarked for Eternal life or Hell and that all the scraping and bowing, good will and deeds of the infidels matter not one iota. Those living now who think they are saved can lord it over other Christians while other less egotistical ones can only hope that they won a ticket in the raffle.

The danger in Arminianism is the idea of having a direct link to Jesus via the holy spirit and the possibility of becoming quite psychotic as a result of this occult link.
As for Calvinism, when it is all boiled down Christian charitable works become a farce, as by helping the unsaved you are only prolonging the journey to Hell

I see emphasis on both these highly disturbing views as counterproductive in the good secular works performed by many Christians who utilize the Church in order to do some good in the here and now and who are not obsessed with depraved and worrisome teachings of unknowable netherworlds.

Pssssst. There is an elephant in the room. Yeshua bar Josef NEVER said anything about "grace", or the salvation paradigm. It was all invented by Saul of Tarsus. It should be called Paulianity, (or Saulianity). Saul had huge conflicts, (documented in "Acts") with Yeshua's brother, (James), and the Jerusalem community, ((who ONLY knew, (eyewitnesses), Yeshua as a good JEW)). If the eyewitnesses couldn't agree on what he meant, why should anyone else say THEY have it figured out ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-01-2012, 06:01 PM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
Re K.S. point 5 relevant to nature of God.
Any morality beyond eventual assessement is not a moral attribute; rather it is a coercive game played by a dictator.

The God you posit is both locked into itself and totally free, a position that defies the human mind. Your view of God as an inventor denigrates any higher hopes and understanding that other potential believers may choose to entertain.

The master/slave morality does not serve secularity or spirituality, and by elevating God to an unchallengeable position you make all debate meaningless by virtue of unsubstantiated argumentum as Fidem......
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09-02-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Arminianisn and Calvinism.
As an FYI, my little dissertation about election produced this thread.

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