Army
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24-08-2010, 07:12 AM
RE: Army
Hey, Moshe.

That's a fine statement. But the IDF has another goal. The subjugation of its enemies. Israel is literally expanding it's territory through settlements into Palestinian land (as contested as these claims may be). So while not a war for oil, it's still projecting force to annex resources.

An army is an army. Militarisation is militarisation. There's no such thing as a good guy army. So yes, the IDF keeps Israel safe, but the idea that it doesn't project force seems pretty unsupportable to me.

This isn't a condemnation of the IDF. I'm not singling it out. But to me, saying the IDF is only there to protect Israel is like saying that the mongoose is the only mammal that doesn't eat. All armies and all mammals share properties. It's what makes them what they are.

Also, in terms of the word, many Western nations had War Departments, but changed them to Defense Departments. For example the US Defense Department and the Canadian Department of National Defense. But both of these Defense Departments still project force for gain.

And lastly, Israel gets its oil from somewhere. So whether it's using it's own military assets or externalising that cost, it's oil is obtained through the use of military force.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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24-08-2010, 08:01 AM
RE: Army
A little off topic, I just gotta ask this: does the army and the defense forces mean the same thing? The picture I´ve gotten is that defense forces never attack, only defend when attacked, but armies do attack. Am I correct?

Correct me when I'm wrong.
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25-08-2010, 09:59 AM
 
RE: Army
Good luck to you. I, myself, have never considered joining our military (US) - just not something I am interested in. My husband has been in for nine years now.
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25-08-2010, 02:35 PM
 
RE: Army
(25-08-2010 09:59 AM)atheist mama Wrote:  Good luck to you. I, myself, have never considered joining our military (US) - just not something I am interested in. My husband has been in for nine years now.

It was our family tradition to serve in the military so I had a pretty good idea how far it would register on the suck-o-meter.
I didn't go because of tradition or patriotism, I did it because I couldn't let someone else go in my place. The draft was alive and well then so anyone (but Bill Clinton) would have been forced to go if I didn't volunteer.
Things were quite different then. Not only did we lack public support, the world hated us. I remember when I came home I grew hair as fast as I could to blend in again.
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03-09-2010, 08:41 AM
RE: Army
First week of the army is over and my foot has been replaced with one giant blister. Screw new boots that take a while to break in! Otherwise, it's just been fun and games (especially watching my fellow recruits talk down the commanders and do the exact opposite of whatever they said) and ridiculously easy as I am doing basic training (for people who are doing desk jobs)/Hebrew language courses for the first 3 months. And then the fun begins when I go to real basic training. Smile

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard (Creater of Scientology)
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03-09-2010, 09:38 AM
RE: Army
(03-09-2010 08:41 AM)Moshe Wrote:  First week of the army is over and my foot has been replaced with one giant blister. Screw new boots that take a while to break in! Otherwise, it's just been fun and games (especially watching my fellow recruits talk down the commanders and do the exact opposite of whatever they said) and ridiculously easy as I am doing basic training (for people who are doing desk jobs)/Hebrew language courses for the first 3 months. And then the fun begins when I go to real basic training. Smile


Good luck to you too. I closed 2 weeks (well...not really- I had 2 afters because my sister had a baby and my brother had a Bar Mitzva), and now I'm at home. On Sunday I finish my basic training and off to the course base (with hopes I won't close in Rosh Hashana...)

I want school!!!!!!
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03-09-2010, 09:51 AM
RE: Army
Hello all.
I myself am joining the Canadian forces primary reserve force, I took my aptitude test about a week ago but because of my poor math skills I have to redo it in 3 months.
I am most likely joining a support role as a supply technician until I finish highschool-start grade 11 this year- after which I am going to re-enlist as military police.

In Canada if you somehow display you are a CF member you will usually get respectful and sympathetic looks from older individuals-elderly and middle aged alike- but many MANY youths in Canada are extremely ignorant, if you go around wearing your service cap you will get hateful looks and be verbally-sometimes physically- harassed.
I once read an article in the local paper about a friend of mine who was attacked by gang members because of his service cap, after the police caught some of these "gangstas" they were interrogated and revealed they wanted to put him in his place believing that he somehow held a higher status because he was in the army.
I don't know how it goes in other parts of Canada but here on the east coast if you're a servicemen you will only get respect from your comrades.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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03-09-2010, 10:15 AM
RE: Army
(03-09-2010 09:51 AM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  .

In Canada if you somehow display you are a CF member you will usually get respectful and sympathetic looks from older individuals-elderly and middle aged alike- but many MANY youths in Canada are extremely ignorant, if you go around wearing your service cap you will get hateful looks and be verbally-sometimes physically- harassed.
I once read an article in the local paper about a friend of mine who was attacked by gang members because of his service cap, after the police caught some of these "gangstas" they were interrogated and revealed they wanted to put him in his place believing that he somehow held a higher status because he was in the army.
I don't know how it goes in other parts of Canada but here on the east coast if you're a servicemen you will only get respect from your comrades.

Good luck in your service. And one little advice- enjoy as much as you can in high school, you'll miss it.

That is so sad what you told about your friend. I hate it when people are being disrespectful to soldiers- they actually fight so you can be safe in your home. In Israel, most of the people are very respectful for soldiers, and very disrespectful for the ones who don't serve from selfish reasons (only health reasons are welcome as an excuse for not serving), because from the simple reason IDF is initial for our existence.
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03-09-2010, 03:17 PM
 
RE: Army
Shirani,

I was drafted into the Army and wound up in Vietnam. If you're in the IDF, it could be a rough road ahead, and I wish you and your friends the best of good fortune.

When I was in boot camp, I went to the chapel on Sundays despite being an atheist ... hell, it was more than an hour away from those sadistic drill sergeants!! Blisters from new boots ... boy, does that bring back some unpleasant memories!!

During Vietnam, a lot of bad things were associated with soldiers at a time of great anti-war sentiment, and they took the heat for decisions made not by them but by the politicians. Now, our society has learned that we can hate the war, but honor the warriors. My son is in the Army (stationed in Germany for the time being) and he's seen first-hand the support that soldiers get -- that never happened to me, but I'm very happy to see it happening for him. And he's been in the 5hit, too!

Ultimately, the worst part right now is the size of our military, forcing multiple deployments for units, unlike our "one year and done" policy during Vietnam. If the goverment re-instituted the draft - which they probably should do if they want to have enough soldiers to fight two (pointless) wars plus all their other obligations - the protesters would be at the barricades in an instant! It would be political suicide, so it won't happen. Instead, the burden for combat falls on the few who serve voluntarily - some of our very best young people. Keep in mind that repeated exposure to combat usually results in the hidden casualties of war ... PTSD victims whose lives are destroyed by war's ugliness and brutality, while our military often turns its back on them.
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03-09-2010, 03:36 PM
RE: Army
I think the reason we don't have a draft is because then politicians the money interests who make a fortune off the military establishment would either have to pony up their own kids to go and fight and that's not going to happen.

My brother-in-law is a huge right winger who thinks the US should be sending troops to fight here and bomb there at the drop of a hat. It's a sure bet my 2 nieces are never going to spend a day in the military though (nor did he and nor did I) so it's easy for him to have that opinion.

As for how we treat soldiers, I think blaming them for bad policy decisions is absurd. Agree or disagree with the policies, but I have nothing but respect for people who volunteer to risk their lives for their country. Some may do it for misguided reasons, but if we didn't have those people I think we would be a lot worse off. Maybe one day we will have a world where we don't need them, but right now we do.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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