Army
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03-09-2010, 03:41 PM
RE: Army
(03-09-2010 10:15 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Good luck in your service. And one little advice- enjoy as much as you can in high school, you'll miss it.

thank you, shiranl. As for missing highschool, I may at moments but highschool is such a small irrelevant

Quote:That is so sad what you told about your friend. I hate it when people are being disrespectful to soldiers- they actually fight so you can be safe in your home. In Israel, most of the people are very respectful for soldiers, and very disrespectful for the ones who don't serve from selfish reasons (only health reasons are welcome as an excuse for not serving), because from the simple reason IDF is initial for our existence.

Yea its a shame most Canadian youths are so desensitized, but mostly you get this amount of horrible behavior in the poor areas of town. To be honest I laugh at the gangs around here "west side mafia", "north end hoods" what a joke, send a SWAT team after them and we'll see how strong they are and how loyal they are to each other.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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03-09-2010, 03:59 PM
 
RE: Army
(13-08-2010 11:04 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Well, on this Wednesday I'm going to enlist to the Israel Defense Force (IDF) and since this is so close subjec to me right now (obviously) I wanted to know your thoughts about the military service.

Good luck to you, I hope it is everything that you are seeking.

(13-08-2010 11:04 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Are you soldiers? did you used to be? did you thought about enlisting the military of your country?

Yes, I am a Soldier. I am an active duty (full time, for those unfamiliar with the terms) Staff Sergeant with 13 years of service. I am preparing to voluntarily end my service without waiting for retirement for personal and religious reasons.

(13-08-2010 11:04 AM)shiranl Wrote:  In Israel the military is "religious friendly" (Jewish religious, of course...) so the kitchen is Kosher and the ones who go to synagogue in the morning for the Shaharit prayer are getting 50 minutes in the morning to do so. 50 minutes which I think I will use, because if you don't- you are doing tasks or sport instead. Is that very hypocrite from my side?

I think it is a little hypocritical, but, then so are most things. If you choose to go through the motions to get out of a punishment detail, then who am I to judge?

I think that the idea of religion or work being your only options is offensive anyway. So go to the prayer, and realize that your beliefs form your core. If you let them change your mind, you let them change your character as well.
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03-09-2010, 08:27 PM
 
RE: Army
Wow, Soldieringon,

I'm VERY impressed with the strength of your personal convictions after investing 13 years, and at SSG, no less!! I "salute" you!!

A word, hopefully of value ... conversion back to civilian status is going to be much harder than you think! My thoughts are with you and if you want to chat offline ... you know how to find me.
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04-09-2010, 12:05 PM
RE: Army
(03-09-2010 09:38 AM)shiranl Wrote:  
(03-09-2010 08:41 AM)Moshe Wrote:  First week of the army is over and my foot has been replaced with one giant blister. Screw new boots that take a while to break in! Otherwise, it's just been fun and games (especially watching my fellow recruits talk down the commanders and do the exact opposite of whatever they said) and ridiculously easy as I am doing basic training (for people who are doing desk jobs)/Hebrew language courses for the first 3 months. And then the fun begins when I go to real basic training. Smile


Good luck to you too. I closed 2 weeks (well...not really- I had 2 afters because my sister had a baby and my brother had a Bar Mitzva), and now I'm at home. On Sunday I finish my basic training and off to the course base (with hopes I won't close in Rosh Hashana...)

I want school!!!!!!
Thanks. Yeh, right now I'm in Michvei Alon which is a course for olim chaddashim (new immigrants) so I'm only on base for one shabbat out of the 3 month course and off for all holidays.

Are you going to course maakim (commander)?

B'hatzlachah

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard (Creater of Scientology)
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04-09-2010, 12:52 PM
RE: Army
My friend was there (without a course for olim hadashim, though. only basic training). Shabbat in the base is pretty nice, actually. I slept all day and got up only for meals.......No, I am not going to course makim (EVER!).
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04-09-2010, 10:38 PM
 
RE: Army
(20-08-2010 03:46 PM)TruthAddict Wrote:  You know, if none of the soldiers showed up, there wouldn't be war (or at least leaders would have to battle out their problems themselves).

Here in the US, I am sick and tired of being spoon-fed the notion that our troops are literally sacred and they are dying for our freedom. Oh please....

The last time US troops died for our freedom was in World War 2. Ever since then, they have been sent to die for the interests of the US government, and the corporations that control it. These interests are never in line with the interests of the people.

Do I admire the troops for their selfless service? Perhaps, but I feel as if they are misinformed. If they knew that Saddam Hussein had no connection to al Qaeda and that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, I wonder if I could still respect them. Their motives are certainly noble, but they may be born of ignorance.

If we use the Nuremberg Trials after WW2 as a precedent, then the soldiers on the field are responsible for the crimes of their leaders. In this case, should we still respect the troops? I am discussing only the case of US troops, as the situation may be different in other countries. Here, I feel as if there is a cult of the GI that is often deeply intertwined with religion.

Absolutely, 100% agree. Very well said.

I have lots and lots of opinions about Israel's treatment of Palestine that probably wouldn't be welcome on this thread. Undecided The last thing the world needs is another Israeli soldier IMO.
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05-09-2010, 12:37 AM
 
RE: Army
And HERE is where I jump on my soapbox.

Quote:You know, if none of the soldiers showed up, there wouldn't be war (or at least leaders would have to battle out their problems themselves).

Here in the US, I am sick and tired of being spoon-fed the notion that our troops are literally sacred and they are dying for our freedom. Oh please....

All right, I let this slide the first time I saw it, and now I see it again. As to the troops “not showing up”, what a simplistic worldview. Seriously, what an overly indulgent, naive, pacifistic worldview. Do you live where I live? Do you do what I do? I take it you have never been a Soldier in the first place.

That statement is essentially “If everyone believed in peace, there would be no war”. Well, no shit.

And if there were no Soldiers, terrorists could attack the United States with impunity because there would be no one to create consequences for their actions. Thanks for that. Seriously.

And as far as you being sick and tired of the media portraying us as heroes, have you ever stopped to think that we are sick and tired of it too? You don't want to see us as heroes? Fine. Stop watching Fox news and Glenn Beck.

As an Atheist and a Soldier, I have never asked for thanks for the job I do. I am simply a man waiting to get home to his wife. Nothing more. I happen to carry a gun for a living and I happen to serve the Country that I LOVE. But I would do so with or without your thanks. And before you get to offended, realize that armed conflict is what allowed you to have the right to speak your mind on this issue in the first place.

Our country used armed conflict to birth itself, divide itself, reunite itself and define itself. If there were no soldiers, there would never have been an America.

Quote:The last time US troops died for our freedom was in World War 2. Ever since then, they have been sent to die for the interests of the US government, and the corporations that control it. These interests are never in line with the interests of the people.

I will stop you right there and point to the attack on our soil by Al Quaeda and say that that was definitely with the interests of the people. As someone who was deployed immediately from Fort Drum (NY) after that attack and who had friends in those buildings, I am going to tell you that not only was I going overseas for the will of the people, but that I have been over there twice more since then.

And When I have been over there, not only did I carry a rifle, but I helped build houses (though I am a combat Soldier, who provides convoy defense and air defense for a living), I clothed and fed children and I taught young Afghan girls how to read because their religious practices forbid the teaching of girls. Period. You want to know what's actually going on there? Ask a soldier.

Quote:Do I admire the troops for their selfless service? Perhaps, but I feel as if they are misinformed. If they knew that Saddam Hussein had no connection to al Qaeda and that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, I wonder if I could still respect them. Their motives are certainly noble, but they may be born of ignorance.

I joined before September 11th (August of '97, actually), and I am contractually obligated to serve. I have reenlisted since then, true, but most of the people that were with me overseas were in before the attacks took place. Then, when they DID take place, there was a surge of enlistments. Those people that joined to fight in Afghanistan got caught up in Iraq.

What do you want us to do? Go AWOL? Become felons? Quit our contracts? Because of your beliefs? I may not have been happy with the reason that we went to Iraq, but I can think of a couple thousand Kurds that are.

And to make matters worse, if any soldier “chooses” not to go to war, then they are choosing to break an entire second set of laws that they fell under when they joined. When you enlist, you specifically state out loud, “I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, obey the orders of the president of the United States and the officers appointed over me....” Then you reaffirm that same belief when you reenlist. These things are punishable under the Uniform Code of Military justice and include jail time, trial by courts-martial reduction in rank and many other things.

You may be sure that the invasion of Iraq was illegal. I may agree with you. But I have never seen a soldier fire his or her rifle unless they were threatened first. So when you talk about the individual soldiers, put your politics aside. Most of us (the VAST majority) don't have time for your politics and are simply trying to get by and provide for our families.

Quote:If we use the Nuremberg Trials after WW2 as a precedent, then the soldiers on the field are responsible for the crimes of their leaders. In this case, should we still respect the troops? I am discussing only the case of US troops, as the situation may be different in other countries. Here, I feel as if there is a cult of the GI that is often deeply intertwined with religion.

Did you seriously just compare us to Nazi's ? Really? Ours is the most “compassionate” Army that I am aware of (in so much as an Army can be compassionate). Our rules of engagement require us to give three separate and elevated warnings before we fire our weapons at someone. We hand out thousands of pounds of food in aid (WE hand it out, not the politicians), build hospitals, schools and feed and clothe the children of the people shooting at us and you want to throw up the Nuremberg trials?

Quote:I have lots and lots of opinions about Israel's treatment of Palestine that probably wouldn't be welcome on this thread. Undecided The last thing the world needs is another Israeli soldier IMO.

And you, Athnostic... Have you thought to consider the fact that Israel has a conscript army? That wearing a uniform is compulsory? It's a requirement. Shiranl already stated that she KNEW from the time that she was little that she would be serving. Your opinion on whether or not the world needs another Israeli Soldier has little to do with the fact that Israel wants and needs her soldiers to maintain her borders at a minimum.

The only way that your idea about the soldiers not showing up works is if everyone agrees to it at once. And the moment someone raises an army, the entire concept falls apart. We can't even agree on a definition for agnosticism. You want to complain about soldiers doing the jobs that they signed on to do?
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05-09-2010, 11:22 AM
RE: Army
I was very turned off by some of the comments in this thread as well. I almost responded at one point but decided to chalk most of the comments up to the wonders of youth. The one poster who does not get that benefit, Ghost, says he served in the Canadian military which, for me at least, means he earned the right to spout off on the topic if he wanted to.

I did think the Nazi comments were ridiculous, though. And, for the record, at Nuremberg the German army was not put on trial. It was the leadership and those responsible for and who worked at the death camps. To compare American soldiers, or really any soldiers who are risking their lives and doing their jobs, to those animals is fairly insulting.

Solideringon - I at least appreciate what you do and hope you get home to your wife soon.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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05-09-2010, 01:10 PM
 
RE: Army
(05-09-2010 11:22 AM)BnW Wrote:  I was very turned off by some of the comments in this thread as well. I almost responded at one point but decided to chalk most of the comments up to the wonders of youth. The one poster who does not get that benefit, Ghost, says he served in the Canadian military which, for me at least, means he earned the right to spout off on the topic if he wanted to.

I did think the Nazi comments were ridiculous, though. And, for the record, at Nuremberg the German army was not put on trial. It was the leadership and those responsible for and who worked at the death camps. To compare American soldiers, or really any soldiers who are risking their lives and doing their jobs, to those animals is fairly insulting.

Solideringon - I at least appreciate what you do and hope you get home to your wife soon.

Everyone has the right to an opinion on the topic. that is the beauty of freedom of speech. But their freedom to spout off includes my freedom to spout back.

And, thank you. Smile
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06-09-2010, 12:16 AM
 
RE: Army
Quote:And you, Athnostic... Have you thought to consider the fact that Israel has a conscript army? That wearing a uniform is compulsory?

Yes, I was aware of that. I'm not sure I could be so positive about the prospect (as the author of this thread was), knowing as I do how Palestinians are treated in the Middle East, that Israel is a bully, and that our support of their actions over the years has more to do with christian Zionism than with justice. I told you this opinion wouldn't be popular.

Chalk pacifism up to "naivety" (which is code for under-informed and ignorant of the real world) if you wish, as long as you're prepared to be called "pessimistic" and "jaded." Big Grin

Quote:You want to complain about soldiers doing the jobs that they signed on to do?

No. You have every right to choose to make a living as a soldier. I would never, ever do so. (This is where you tell me that it's those willing to serve who have preserved my freedom of choice. Perhaps.) Our military campaigns over the years have pissed off the rest of the world to the extent that we must defend ourselves with frequency. What a self-perpetuating mess.

I didn't mean to be offensive, but I can't deny I feel strongly about the situation in the Middle East.
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