Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
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27-09-2011, 01:10 PM
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
No, we're not just spinning our wheels. The more voices speaking out against religion the more it will diminish. Of course we may not convince the more devout, but we can convince the fence sitters, the ones the Bible refers to as luke warm.
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27-09-2011, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2011 01:50 PM by defacto7.)
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
(27-09-2011 01:10 PM)RubyHypatia Wrote:  No, we're not just spinning our wheels. The more voices speaking out against religion the more it will diminish. Of course we may not convince the more devout, but we can convince the fence sitters, the ones the Bible refers to as luke warm.

Thanks Ruby, but again, I didn't say we should not confront or defend. I am referring to the method that is most affective. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" does not mean we should drown the horse either let alone drown ourself in the process.
(and oh... oh that bible verse about luke warm and spitting out of the mouth, I have so much to say about that verse because I think that is one bible verse that has done more damage to the human race than just about any... but that is so off topic I'll save it for a different thread.)

Quote:zaika said....
So, I think we have to choose our battles, and cut off people who just aren't going to, or just can't, have a fruitful discussion. There is no point in wasting energy on that. However, I'm thinking that it's those people specifically who are the ones who benefit from being on the sidelines of a discussion...when their mouth isn't running (or fingers aren't typing), they have more of a chance of actually hearing what is being said. I would hope, anyway.

I think that's a great point, zaika. Choosing the battle is right up there with winning a battle. I think if we choose the point of confrontation based on our confidence, share what we know with confidence and conclude it with confidence and resolve, we have done the best we can do. No need to squabble.

Quote:NotSoVacuous said...
Arguments have to have a strategy or a plan, if they go into a loophole of fallacies and contradictions, it's over.

I couldn't agree more. I am also impressed by your methodical way of balancing your plan. Not everyone can size up the situation mathematically; most of us go by the seat of our pants. That is not to say that we who just jump in shouldn't be prepared for a reasonable end of discussion when that moment arises and be confident enough in what we have said to accept that ending without having accomplished the conclusion we had hoped for.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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27-09-2011, 03:39 PM
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
I've seen some Atheists act like dicks when confronting believers. I wish we'd be more tolerant.
Phil Plait, "Don't Be a Dick" (Part 1 of 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmP9XozKE...re=related

Defacto7, I look forward to your commentary on the verse about being luke warm.
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27-09-2011, 04:54 PM
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
(27-09-2011 01:42 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Thanks Ruby, but again, I didn't say we should not confront or defend. I am referring to the method that is most affective. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" does not mean we should drown the horse either let alone drown ourself in the process.

Cutting them off at the knees has been most effective for me. I don't bother with arguing or even discussing minutiae. I just go straight to the brass tacks, "It seems to me that you are promising me some sort of postmortem preservation of identity. You need to explain to me how that is even imaginable, let alone reasonable or tenable before we continue." ... crickets chirping.

N.B. This works well on Christians, not so much on Buddhists. They just smile at me bemusedly ... like I almost, but not quite, get it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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27-09-2011, 05:58 PM
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
(27-09-2011 04:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Cutting them off at the knees has been most effective for me.

Cool. Whatever works.

Quote:I don't bother with arguing or even discussing minutiae.

Now that's confidence!

Quote:I just go straight to the brass tacks,

ouch!

Quote: "It seems to me that you are promising me some sort of postmortem preservation of identity. You need to explain to me how that is even imaginable, let alone reasonable or tenable before we continue." ... crickets chirping.

Girly... you win! You have reached that point of no contest proving that even a Atheist can do it!
Enjoy the spoils! jk

Actually, I have no idea what you're talking about unless you are talking about a different post or you're a horse.

Quote:N.B. This works well on Christians, not so much on Buddhists. They just smile at me bemusedly ... like I almost, but not quite, get it.

It is good to know someone who knows how to read the face of a Buddhist. I guess.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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27-09-2011, 07:39 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2011 08:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
(27-09-2011 05:58 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Actually, I have no idea what you're talking about unless you are talking about a different post or you're a horse.

Granted. I cannot offer you a guarantee that I am not a horse. ... Most days I feel like an asshole.

(27-09-2011 05:58 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Enjoy the spoils!

There are no spoils.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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27-09-2011, 09:58 PM
RE: Around and around and around we go. Where we stop... Who knows.
(27-09-2011 07:39 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Granted. I cannot offer you a guarantee that I am not a horse.

Then it's possible you are god.

Quote: ... Most days I feel like an asshole.

Then it's possible you are god.

Quote:There are no spoils.

Then it's impossible you are god.

---------
but I got some spoils layin' around here somewheres... where'd I put them spoils? I'll share'm with you if I can find em.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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