Article About An Ex-Atheist
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-04-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(04-04-2013 06:06 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I don't like coming across as condescending when someone takes the time to make a post this long, and articulate, (and if I offend, believe it or not, I apologize) but I still believe that all the positive sensations you've encountered, from feeling the concept of love to experiencing the act of laughter, from feeling the concept of inner peace to experiencing the physical release of tension (like when you shed your fears), were ALL inside you to begin with!! Whether a person completes you, a place frees you, a thing sustains you, or a combination of all 3 gets wrapped up in a conceptualized name for what defines you, recognize that all of them are just tools with which you used to enlighten yourself. If you wish to label the universe as "god" and use that label to encompass all the wonderful things in the world, fine. But the christian god, santa, the boogey man, zues, the kraken, shiva, odin, and the tooth fairy will not ever be more than fictional characters to me, or the psychologically unhealthy manifestation of a need for an imaginary friend in others!
But I still luv ya Smile

This isn't onedream's experience, somebody sent this to him in an email.

Onedream is a rather recently turned agnostic/atheist

[Image: giphy.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Tartarus Sauce's post
04-04-2013, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 04:20 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
I love reading the testimonials for and against atheism. Seems like ill informed people convert back and forth constantly as they try to figure out the world.

The best cure against conversion is a study of the bible, logic, biases, contradictions, consistency, etc...

The only thing I'd watch out for is those who judge science based on what they feel, not what is true.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like fstratzero's post
04-04-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(04-04-2013 06:09 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 06:06 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I don't like coming across as condescending when someone takes the time to make a post this long, and articulate, (and if I offend, believe it or not, I apologize) but I still believe that all the positive sensations you've encountered, from feeling the concept of love to experiencing the act of laughter, from feeling the concept of inner peace to experiencing the physical release of tension (like when you shed your fears), were ALL inside you to begin with!! Whether a person completes you, a place frees you, a thing sustains you, or a combination of all 3 gets wrapped up in a conceptualized name for what defines you, recognize that all of them are just tools with which you used to enlighten yourself. If you wish to label the universe as "god" and use that label to encompass all the wonderful things in the world, fine. But the christian god, santa, the boogey man, zues, the kraken, shiva, odin, and the tooth fairy will not ever be more than fictional characters to me, or the psychologically unhealthy manifestation of a need for an imaginary friend in others!
But I still luv ya Smile

This isn't onedream's experience, somebody sent this to him in an email.

Onedream is a rather recently turned agnostic/atheist

Shocking
so I didn't have to worry about offending any schizophrenic's imaginary friend?
THAT's a relief

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like TheGulegon's post
04-04-2013, 07:27 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(04-04-2013 05:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have posted this enough times. No more.
I will consider it spam and will delete it.

Kindly obtain a speculum of sufficient capacity to assist the removal of your cranium from your rectal vault. Then you may know what "spam" actually is.

Such a need to justify your imagined authority amongst adults merely feeds into negative stereotypes.

[Image: 88129ba7.gif]

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-04-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(04-04-2013 07:27 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 05:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have posted this enough times. No more.
I will consider it spam and will delete it.

Kindly obtain a speculum of sufficient capacity to assist the removal of your cranium from your rectal vault. Then you may know what "spam" actually is.

Such a need to justify your imagined authority amongst adults merely feeds into negative stereotypes.

[Image: 88129ba7.gif]


You sure know how to win friends and influence people.Drinking Beverage

Complain to someone else. The admins are Hughsie and FSM_Scot.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
04-04-2013, 09:36 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 03:16 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
Article is full of logical fallacies

1. Appeals to emotion, ie X makes me feel good, therefore X is true,
2. a lot of other people believe too (argumentum ad numerum,) therefore X is true,
3. authoritative people believe (argumentum ad verecundiam,) therefore X is true,
4. or it’s a very popular belief (argumentum ad populum,) therefore X is true.

None of her arguments are based on facts about the legitimacy of Christianity.

Conclusions?
1.No evidence X is true.
2.They let dumb chicks into Harvard.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like Mark Fulton's post
05-04-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(04-04-2013 05:34 PM)onedream Wrote:  Article below someone e-mailed me today. Strange that someone who claims to be a skeptic would adopt faith.


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013...=off#bmb=1

don't know when I first became a skeptic. It must have been around age 4, when my mother found me arguing with another child at a birthday party: "But how do you know what the Bible says is true?" By age 11, my atheism was so widely known in my middle school that a Christian boy threatened to come to my house and "shoot all the atheists." My Christian friends in high school avoided talking to me about religion because they anticipated that I would tear down their poorly constructed arguments. And I did.

As I set off in 2008 to begin my freshman year studying government at Harvard (whose motto is Veritas, "Truth"), I could never have expected the change that awaited me.

It was a brisk November when I met John Joseph Porter. Our conversations initially revolved around conservative politics, but soon gravitated toward religion. He wrote an essay for the Ichthus, Harvard's Christian journal, defending God's existence. I critiqued it. On campus, we'd argue into the wee hours; when apart, we'd take our arguments to e-mail. Never before had I met a Christian who could respond to my most basic philosophical questions: How does one understand the Bible's contradictions? Could an omnipotent God make a stone he could not lift? What about the Euthyphro dilemma: Is something good because God declared it so, or does God merely identify the good? To someone like me, with no Christian background, resorting to an answer like "It takes faith" could only be intellectual cowardice. Joseph didn't do that.

The Cross no longer seemed a grotesque symbol of divine sadism, but a remarkable act of love. Christianity began to look less strangely mythical and more cosmically beautiful.
And he did something else: He prodded me on how inconsistent I was as an atheist who nonetheless believed in right and wrong as objective, universal categories. Defenseless, I decided to take a seminar on meta-ethics. After all, atheists had been developing ethical systems for 200-some years. In what I now see as providential, my atheist professor assigned a paper by C. S. Lewis that resolved the Euthyphro dilemma, declaring, "God is not merely good, but goodness; goodness is not merely divine, but God."

Joseph also pushed me on the origins of the universe. I had always believed in the Big Bang. But I was blissfully unaware that the man who first proposed it, Georges Lemaître, was a Catholic priest. And I'd happily ignored the rabbit trail of a problem of what caused the Big Bang, and what caused that cause, and so on.

By Valentine's Day, I began to believe in God. There was no intellectual shame in being a deist, after all, as I joined the respectable ranks of Thomas Jefferson and other Founding Fathers.

I wouldn't stay a deist for long. A Catholic friend gave me J. Budziszewski's book Ask Me Anything, which included the Christian teaching that "love is a commitment of the will to the true good of the other person." This theme—of love as sacrifice for true good—struck me. The Cross no longer seemed a grotesque symbol of divine sadism, but a remarkable act of love. And Christianity began to look less strangely mythical and more cosmically beautiful.

At the same time, I had begun to read through the Bible and was confronted by my sin. I was painfully arrogant and prone to fits of rage. I was unforgiving and unwaveringly selfish. I passed sexual boundaries that I'd promised I wouldn't. The fact that I had failed to adhere to my own ethical standards filled me with deep regret. Yet I could do nothing to right these wrongs. The Cross no longer looked merely like a symbol of love, but like the answer to an incurable need. When I read the Crucifixion scene in the Book of John for the first time, I wept.

No Walk in the Park

But beauty and need do not make something true. I longed for the Bible to be true, but the intellectual evidence was still insufficient.

So I plunged headlong into apologetics, devouring debates and books from many perspectives. I read the Qur'an and Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion. I went through The Skeptic's Annotated Bible and looked up Christian rebuttals to apparent contradictions. But nothing compared to the rich tradition of Christian intellect. I'd argued with my peers, but I'd never investigated the works of the masters: Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Descartes, Kant, Pascal, and Lewis. When I finally did, the only reasonable course of action was to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

But my head and my heart suddenly switched places. Though I began to know the evidence for the Scriptures, my head full of answers, I began to feel distant from the story that had brought me to tears a month prior. When reading through the Passion narrative on retreat on Cape Cod in the spring, I remained utterly unmoved. I went out to pray.

I walked to a pond surrounded by trees and began praying by the water's edge. I felt disconnected from God, from the friends I'd begun to hold dear, from my body itself. I begged God to make it all click, as a test for me to know that he was there. After an hour with no progress, I started to walk.

Following the pond to a stream, I began climbing through the surrounding thicket to see if I could reach the ocean a little ways down. I kept pausing, thinking, Do I want to go back? I left all my stuff behind. But each time, I renewed my steps, believing that I couldn't quit until I'd made it to the end. I wouldn't forgive myself if I just gave up and went back to where I'd started. I had some sense of direction of where I needed to go, but I didn't know how to get there.

I climbed over branches and under bushes, sometimes going in the opposite direction for a while when the bramble grew too thick. I treaded lightly through marshes only to have the mud swallow my leg up to the knee. After pulling myself out, I started walking through the stream, since I figured I couldn't get any dirtier, and the ground seemed to be most trustworthy along the middle of the river where the water had worn the path. So I followed it until the last light of day was waning.

I quickly realized that my journey through the briar patch was an apt metaphor. I'm trying to get somewhere, but I'm not sure how to get there. There's no clear path, so I must proceed by trusting my instincts. I might even go off in the opposite direction for a little while. In the end, I may arrive right back where I started. But that's okay too, because I'll get there with a clearer head and everything will be waiting for me when I'm done. It won't be easy. Sometimes I'll get mired in the mud, or caught up in thorns. But I'll make it through, though not without a few cuts.

If I wanted to continue forward in this investigation, I couldn't let it be just an intellectual journey. Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" (John 8:31-32). I could know the truth only if I pursued obedience first.

I'd been waiting for my head and my heart to be in agreement. By the end of the church retreat, they weren't completely in sync. Many days they still aren't. But I realized that the unity could come later. If my heart had agreed at one point, and my head agreed now, then my heart would follow. I couldn't let a malfunctioning heart delay the logical course of action, the obedience required by true faith.

I committed my life to Christ by being baptized on Easter Sunday, 2009.

This walk has proved to be quite a journey. I've struggled with depression. I would yell, scream, cry at this God whom I had begun to love but didn't always like. But never once did I have to sacrifice my intellect for my faith, and he blessed me most keenly through my doubt. God revealed himself through Scripture, prayer, friendships, and the Christian tradition whenever I pursued him faithfully. I cannot say for certain where the journey ends, but I have committed to follow the way of Christ wherever it may lead. When confronted with the overwhelming body of evidence I encountered, when facing down the living God, it was the only rational course of action.

I came to Harvard seeking Veritas. Instead, he found me.
There seems to be a huge disconnect between this person's self-described ability to knock down anyone's religious arguments and then later accepting things with little argument at all. For example this:
Quote:Joseph also pushed me on the origins of the universe. I had always believed in the Big Bang. But I was blissfully unaware that the man who first proposed it, Georges Lemaître, was a Catholic priest. And I'd happily ignored the rabbit trail of a problem of what caused the Big Bang, and what caused that cause, and so on.
Ok, the question arose, but why is the answer so easily "must be God"? I realize there was more to influencing her ultimate change of belief than just that, but it sounds like it was due largely to the combined impact of a bunch of those. It sounds like "the masters" may have had considerable influence too, but again, a strong skeptic should see the fallacies even in those.

I'm guessing there were emotional factors at work that overrode her desire to remain objective.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Impulse's post
05-04-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
Thanks for speaking up for me!!!

No, I didn't write the article. Just was sent it by someone who saw it in Christianity today.

(04-04-2013 06:09 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 06:06 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I don't like coming across as condescending when someone takes the time to make a post this long, and articulate, (and if I offend, believe it or not, I apologize) but I still believe that all the positive sensations you've encountered, from feeling the concept of love to experiencing the act of laughter, from feeling the concept of inner peace to experiencing the physical release of tension (like when you shed your fears), were ALL inside you to begin with!! Whether a person completes you, a place frees you, a thing sustains you, or a combination of all 3 gets wrapped up in a conceptualized name for what defines you, recognize that all of them are just tools with which you used to enlighten yourself. If you wish to label the universe as "god" and use that label to encompass all the wonderful things in the world, fine. But the christian god, santa, the boogey man, zues, the kraken, shiva, odin, and the tooth fairy will not ever be more than fictional characters to me, or the psychologically unhealthy manifestation of a need for an imaginary friend in others!
But I still luv ya Smile

This isn't onedream's experience, somebody sent this to him in an email.

Onedream is a rather recently turned agnostic/atheist
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-04-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
(05-04-2013 11:20 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I'm guessing there were emotional factors at work that overrode her desire to remain objective.

Emotional factor explained: The dumb chick they let into Harvard, found a christee clawing at her panties and accidentally let him in.

Wait 'til he fucks up; no doubt she's got another atheist mood swing ready in the wings. I don't give a shit how much she intellectualizes about it. Potential ex lovers happen to everyone, she's just too young to know she's in control of that as well as everything else her own life.

The power struggle within, between human and god, becomes a moot point when the human finally grows the fuck up. Drinking Beverage

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kim's post
06-04-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Article About An Ex-Atheist
Someone converts. Her reasons wouldn't have worked for me, I don't consider them valid for my own thought process, I'd regard it intellectually as a mistake, but hey, her life, her decisions. No skin off my nose.

What I find mildly distressing about this article, though, is that it can be taken by... enthusiasts, lets say, as a prescription for converting atheists. And it's a very tried, tired, familiar, worn out prescription that has a very poor track record. Argument of first cause. Innate understanding of goodness (rather than morality as an amalgam of social constructs and instincts). Personal, emotional experience, rather than anything verifiable, falsifiable, or empirical.

Fine for her. But I wonder just how many Christians are going to say, "Hey, that works on all atheists! Let's go throw all that at them for the umpteenth time, no matter how obnoxious they find it! We've got an anecdote that says it works!"

I'm probably fretting over nothing, though. That'd happen either way.

Warning Labels: Long-winded. Twisted sense of humor (including puns, literalisms, absurdisms, all complicated by sarcasm and deadpan delivery). Contrarian. Do not combine with high quantities of sugar, acid (corrosive or hallucinogenic), or people who take themselves too seriously.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Reltzik's post
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  It takes more faith to be an Atheist TheKetola 40 3,672 18-07-2014 01:29 PM
Last Post: Mr. Slave
  Atheist / Agnostic Informational Resource Library Near 164 15,403 13-07-2014 12:41 AM
Last Post: DLJ
  A Christian's response to"An atheist's critique of the Bible Jeremy E Walker 183 3,086 24-06-2014 04:40 PM
Last Post: Anna
  Favorite Atheist Misconception? =jesse= 45 952 14-06-2014 10:34 PM
Last Post: Sam
  An atheist is not a kafir? rizzzzzzzzzzzz 17 281 13-06-2014 04:48 AM
Last Post: Charis
  Atheist that believes in god? Rockingrandma 40 654 12-06-2014 02:42 AM
Last Post: EvolutionKills
  How to tell your parents that you are an atheist? austinlachney 9 169 09-06-2014 09:06 AM
Last Post: Thinkerbelle
Forum Jump: