Article on miracles
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14-06-2012, 05:41 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2012 05:26 PM by ghostexorcist.)
Article on miracles
I recently visited my grandparents during the week. One of their AARP Magazines had an article in it about miracles. Here it is for your reading pleasure:

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I have to say that I found many of the examples laughable because they could be easily explained away. For instance, one preacher had esophageal cancer and was told by his doctor that he only had 6 months to live. However, the article mentions that "He’s still here—and preaching, despite the removal of his esophagus” (the emphasis is mine). Gee, I wonder how he survived? What he calls a miracle, I call modern medicine. He should be thanking the radiation oncologists (my mother is one) and the surgeons that saved his life!

At one point, the article mentions the correlation between wealth and a person's level of belief. Then it states the aforementioned preacher as saying wealthy and well educated people “are the masters of the universe…They don’t need anybody." Sounds pretty full of himself doesn't he? Chances are someone with more money is going to have a higher level of education. Thus, they will be more skeptical towards religious claims. How is knowing more about the world around you a bad thing? When I read what the guy said, I basically interpreted it as: “I like being stupid, and you should too.” I just recently finished reading a small book on how scientific illiteracy threatens the future of America. It has a section where it talks about how being smart in America is wrongly looked upon as being inherently bad. Preachers like this a-hole are perpetuating this by teaching it to future generations of science doubters.

I was ultimately surprised to see that the writer included the view point of skeptics like Michael Shermer and Penn Jillette. I bet Penn was trying his hardest not to drop a whole bunch of F-bombs during the interview! That man could make a sentence using F*ck.
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14-06-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: Article on miracles
I cannot believe stuff like this. Someone on he forum has somethinglike this as their signature: THE GARDEN IS BEAUTIFUL ENOUGH WITHOUT BELIEVING THERE ARE FAIRES AT THE BOTTOM. that encompasses my feelings on miracles. If God truly cared about what what we do. Than we wouldn't have "miracles" where a soldier sess an enemy first. Or gets a lucky shot of that saved his life. Because God would have prevented war in the first place. God wants us to be free to do what we want, even ignoring Him is fine. Chance is the only thing behind that. People who believe that God performs miracles should jump off a cliff and see if He saves them.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

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15-06-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Article on miracles
I had a headache. Took some aspirin. The headache went away. It's a miracle.
I got cancer. Took some chemo. The cancer went away. It's a miracle.
I had sex with the wife. She got pregnant. We had a kid. It's a miracle.
...it's a miracle. Bowing because nothing that I described above could have happened without supernatural intervention. Angel

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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15-06-2012, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2012 05:37 PM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Article on miracles
(15-06-2012 03:27 PM)Thomas Wrote:  I had a headache. Took some aspirin. The headache went away. It's a miracle.
I got cancer. Took some chemo. The cancer went away. It's a miracle.
I had sex with the wife. She got pregnant. We had a kid. It's a miracle.
...it's a miracle. Bowing because nothing that I described above could have happened without supernatural intervention. Angel

You are surrounded by miracles. You must be a saint. All hail St. Thomas of the Greys!

Someone linked to an article on a Christian newspaper some time ago. I remember looking on the side bar and seeing an article about a baby who survived falling under a subway train. They called it a miracle. The baby is no doubt lucky, but, again, the situation is easily explained away. Body size is ultimately what saved it's life; the baby didn't get squished because there was plenty of clearance under the train.

Edit - I just watched the video. The stroller rolled off the platform just as the train was pulling in. What saved the baby was the fact that it was securely fastened to the stroller and the low speed of the train as it was coming to a stop. The stroller was dragged about 100 feet. I still don't see a miracle.
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15-06-2012, 06:16 PM
RE: Article on miracles
(15-06-2012 05:25 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Edit - I just watched the video. The stroller rolled off the platform just as the train was pulling in. What saved the baby was the fact that it was securely fastened to the stroller and the low speed of the train as it was coming to a stop. The stroller was dragged about 100 feet. I still don't see a miracle.
You don't see a miracle because you don't have enough faith. Bowing

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-06-2012, 09:58 PM
RE: Article on miracles
There is actually a priest who was on his death bed (literally) dying from aids. he had a dream were some saint made the sign of the cross and when he woke up he walked 2 miles to the church. he later ordained a priest. As far as i know there is no cure for aids.

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15-06-2012, 11:19 PM
RE: Article on miracles
(15-06-2012 09:58 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  There is actually a priest who was on his death bed (literally) dying from aids. he had a dream were some saint made the sign of the cross and when he woke up he walked 2 miles to the church. he later ordained a priest. As far as i know there is no cure for aids.
Lots of priests with HIV however. Bishops ordain priests. Blink

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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16-06-2012, 04:00 AM
RE: Article on miracles
(15-06-2012 09:58 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  There is actually a priest who was on his death bed (literally) dying from aids. he had a dream were some saint made the sign of the cross and when he woke up he walked 2 miles to the church. he later ordained a priest. As far as i know there is no cure for aids.
And I would like to know, *how* do we know this guy is telling the truth?

Want proof that he was dying of AIDS and is now definitely cured. Also that this was without modern medicine intervening. Otherwise sure you can attribute it to God but if a whole bunch of other people are getting cured by modern medicine without God then it seems more unlikely.

AIDS takes a while to kill you, (in fact, it doesn't kill you, it just shafts your immune system so hard that you can't recover from the next dose of flu or TB or whatever random disease finally knocks you) a strong person can maybe last longer. Also anti-retrovirals have been effective. They can push the disease back to the point where you actually can become healthy again. So it hardly seems miraculous.
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16-06-2012, 10:14 AM
RE: Article on miracles
(16-06-2012 04:00 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-06-2012 09:58 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  There is actually a priest who was on his death bed (literally) dying from aids. he had a dream were some saint made the sign of the cross and when he woke up he walked 2 miles to the church. he later ordained a priest. As far as i know there is no cure for aids.
And I would like to know, *how* do we know this guy is telling the truth?

Want proof that he was dying of AIDS and is now definitely cured. Also that this was without modern medicine intervening. Otherwise sure you can attribute it to God but if a whole bunch of other people are getting cured by modern medicine without God then it seems more unlikely.

AIDS takes a while to kill you, (in fact, it doesn't kill you, it just shafts your immune system so hard that you can't recover from the next dose of flu or TB or whatever random disease finally knocks you) a strong person can maybe last longer. Also anti-retrovirals have been effective. They can push the disease back to the point where you actually can become healthy again. So it hardly seems miraculous.
What a buzzkill. I kinda liked that fable story report.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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16-06-2012, 10:17 AM
RE: Article on miracles
(16-06-2012 10:14 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  What a buzzkill. I kinda liked that fable story report.
if it buzzes I kill it.
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