As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
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07-06-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(06-06-2012 03:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(06-06-2012 02:53 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  You [Chas] say:
Quote:http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid122543
And your 'explanation' explains nothing. The difference is that science posits possible answers and mechanisms. Your 'uncreated' god is no clearer than saying the universe was created from the sputum of a giant tortoise.

The simple, logical refutation of the usefulness of your concept is that the universe itself has always been. Or that the mass/energy of this universe has always existed and universes come and go.

Just saying you believe in the uncreated creator is logically empty and intellectually lazy.

That is supposed to be the fruit of your thinking on the origin of the universe?

Here is again the fruit of my thinking on the origin of the universe:



Are you aware that you have evaded the issue, which is about the origin of the universe?

The way I understand you, there is no origin of the universe, it has always existed or it just always exists, more specifically mass/energy has always existed or mass/energy just always exists.

And then you add that universes come and go.

There are three propositions here from your concise evasion of the issue about the origin of the universe:



1. the universe itself has always been. Or that
2. the mass/energy of this universe has always existed and
3. universes come and go.


First, allow me to congratulate you that at least you are presenting words which might at least might give the impression to your readers that you are doing genuine thinking.

So granting though not conceding that you are doing genuine thinking, suppose you explain how you by thinking come to the thought that "1. the universe itself has always been."

I see it to be nothing more than a mere slogan or a cliche but nothing of genuine thinking.

Don't go away.

Do more thinking as to explain how by thinking you come to "1. the universe itself has always been."



Pachomius




How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Universe was created, and that it's creator was not created?

I agree with Chas.



Let us all try to think about the origin of the universe.

So, please everyone here if you don't have any fruit from your thinking on the origin of the universe. please just continue to write here but I for one will not react to you.

I am still waiting for Chas to return but I fear he will not return as to do credit to his own thinking about the origin of the universe, that is why I say that atheists are only good for uttering slogans and cliches but nothing that is indicative of genuine thinking, and they will leave the scene when they are requested to explain how by thinking they come to their idea of the origin of the universe.

Anyway, here is Dom taking over for Chas.

Dear Dom, you agree with Chas on his three propositions:

1. the universe itself has always been. Or that
2. the mass/energy of this universe has always existed and
3. universes come and go.


And you want me to explain my thinking whereby I come to the origin of the universe as:
  • The unique uncreated God created the created universe.

You ask me:
  • How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Universe was created, and that it's creator was not created?

That is a very good question, and it is a sign that you want to think, and thus we can both think together: on my part how I arrive at the idea that a unique uncreated creator created the created universe, and on your part how you arrive at the idea that the universe always exists (so that the universe is the origin of the universe, no God needed), which is the first proposition of Chas, "1. the universe itself has always been."

The way I think is the following procedure: from observations about everything that I can observe I come to think that the universe is not self-originated, therefore I have to think of an origin of the universe outside of the universe, I will continue further later; but you now, you tell me what is your procedure to ultimately come to the idea that the universe always exists.


Do not go away.



Pachomius
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07-06-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
Quote:The way I think is the following procedure: from observations about
everything that I can observe I come to think that the universe is not
self-originated, therefore I have to think of an origin of the universe
outside of the universe, I will continue further later; but you now, you
tell me what is your procedure to ultimately come to the idea that the
universe always exists.
What observations? And no one said 'self-originated'. Always means always - no creation.

I speculate that the universe or mass/energy have always been, you speculate that there is something outside the universe that created the universe, and that it is uncreated. Where is that somewhere? Where did it come from? What was your creator doing for all eternity before creating this universe?

And work on your tone - it is annoying, not amusing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-06-2012, 02:50 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(07-06-2012 01:40 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, please everyone here if you don't have any fruit from your thinking on the origin of the universe. please just continue to write here but I for one will not react to you.

I will rephrase for you, just to make sure it's clear for everyone: Feel free to say whatever you want. But I probably will ignore it unless by some chance I don't.

(07-06-2012 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:The way I think is the following procedure: from observations about
everything that I can observe I come to think that the universe is not
self-originated, therefore I have to think of an origin of the universe
outside of the universe, I will continue further later; but you now, you
tell me what is your procedure to ultimately come to the idea that the
universe always exists.
What observations? And no one said 'self-originated'. Always means always - no creation.

I speculate that the universe or mass/energy have always been, you speculate that there is something outside the universe that created the universe, and that it is uncreated. Where is that somewhere? Where did it come from? What was your creator doing for all eternity before creating this universe?

And work on your tone - it is annoying, not amusing.

I think we can respond in the same way he does...


The way I think is the following procedure: from observations about everything that I can observe I come to think that the universe has always existed, therefore I do not think in terms of the origin of the universe but, instead, in terms of the history of our universe (such as prior to the big bang and the space/time after the big bang until the present time), I will continue further later; but you now, you tell me what is your procedure to ultimately come to the idea that the universe was created.


When you get to talk in generalities without the burden of facts and information it makes writing an explanation easier. Plus it makes throwing out other peoples' facts and information easier. Because all that stuff is irrelevant.
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07-06-2012, 04:14 PM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2012 04:21 PM by kim.)
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
Here you go Pachomius, knock yourself out.
[Image: Calabi-Yau-alternate.png]

Oh, and feel free to ask any questions since you've shown us all here at thethinkingatheist site that Theists are only good for uttering slogans and cliches, but nothing that is indicative of genuine thinking about how you come to the idea of the origin of the universe.

You are welcome. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-06-2012, 04:32 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(07-06-2012 04:14 PM)kim Wrote:  Here you go Pachomius, knock yourself out.
[Image: Calabi-Yau-alternate.png]

Oh, and feel free to ask any questions since you've shown us all here at thethinkingatheist site that Theists are only good for uttering slogans and cliches, but nothing that is indicative of genuine thinking about how you come to the idea of the origin of the universe.

You are welcome. Shy
Is that a giant origami vagina ??? What is that thing?
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07-06-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(07-06-2012 04:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  Is that a giant origami vagina ??? What is that thing?

Technically it's a Calabi-Yau manifold -which is a fundamental aspect of supersymmetry string theory...

but giant origami vagina actually kind of works for me, now that I think about it!! Thumbsup

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-06-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(07-06-2012 04:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-06-2012 04:14 PM)kim Wrote:  Here you go Pachomius, knock yourself out.
[Image: Calabi-Yau-alternate.png]

Oh, and feel free to ask any questions since you've shown us all here at thethinkingatheist site that Theists are only good for uttering slogans and cliches, but nothing that is indicative of genuine thinking about how you come to the idea of the origin of the universe.

You are welcome. Shy
Is that a giant origami vagina ??? What is that thing?

Haha, origami vagina...

You may remember me from such theories as "String Theory". Big Grin

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07-06-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(07-06-2012 01:40 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  The way I think is the following procedure: from observations about everything that I can observe I come to think that the universe is not self-originated, therefore I have to think of an origin of the universe outside of the universe, I will continue further later; but you now, you tell me what is your procedure to ultimately come to the idea that the universe always exists.
What observations lead you to this conclusion? You have yet to answer this in enough detail that would provide sufficient evidence for this to be anything other than an assertion. It makes no sense to continue in a debate of any sort to simply answer a question with a blanket statement with "I'll answer it sometime later" instead of simply addressing it, otherwise your point is minuscule and empty.

"Where did that rock come from?"
"Well I think that it came from a place. I'll explain some other time why I think that, but for now I'll go off tangent and try to divert the conversation by trying to get you to lean towards logical fallacies which don't directly answer any of the previous questions and instead dance around posts that I can only cherry pick."
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08-06-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
I don't understand how the hell my thinking isn't genuine.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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08-06-2012, 12:01 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
This is going towards the "can anyting come from nothing" argument.

Pachy, stop telling me what to do and what to write about. I am not a good candidate for your game, because I see through it.

Pachy, define nothing for me. Maybe then we can talk.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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