As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
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08-06-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
One of the biggest differences in terms of ACTIONS is that I am no longer pursuing a career with the church.

Other changes in actions probably are not linked directly to my apostasy, but more to other changes in my life. Such as moving, changing jobs, and restarting school.

Had my apostasy changed my psychology? Not really. I tend to think that a great deal of our personality is ingrained from birth. I will say that my worldview is much more unified than it used to be. Before I had to compartmentalize. I don't have to do that anymore, and it is much easier for me this way. I am able now to think about the world in such a way as it makes a lot more sense than it used to.

I've only read about 20 pages so far, and I'm trying to be polite and civil. But the claim that we weren't "sincere practicing Christians" is bullshit. If you want to say that then I get to say that in your deepest heart of heart you know this god stuff is bullshit. Let's assume we all believe what we say we believe/believed. You know, like adults do.
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08-06-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
WE HAVE A DEFINITION!!!

As promised I will discuss any concept of god that has a solid definition.

Quote:Here is my concept of God, the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.

Ooohhhhh..... problem. That is WAY too vague. What do you mean by "everything with a beginning?" A tree begins to exist through a slow process by which energy and nutrients are reconstructed into an object that we call a tree. At what point does it "begin to exist?"

Or do you mean the beginning of the universe and the origin of all matter and energy? This is still a problem because while spacetime may have a finite end in the past, it is still uncertain that it "began to exist" in the way you are phrasing it. There are some people who think it didn't.

Perhaps you are granting agency to the universe itself, implying that the lawfulness of the universe is a manifestation of some intelligent agency. I'm still not sure.
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08-06-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(08-06-2015 03:17 PM)natachan Wrote:  What do you mean by "everything with a beginning?"

Good luck. I asked that multiple times. So far the silence has been deafening.

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08-06-2015, 05:20 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(08-06-2015 03:17 PM)natachan Wrote:  WE HAVE A DEFINITION!!!

As promised I will discuss any concept of god that has a solid definition.

Quote:Here is my concept of God, the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.

Ooohhhhh..... problem. That is WAY too vague. What do you mean by "everything with a beginning?" A tree begins to exist through a slow process by which energy and nutrients are reconstructed into an object that we call a tree. At what point does it "begin to exist?"

Or do you mean the beginning of the universe and the origin of all matter and energy? This is still a problem because while spacetime may have a finite end in the past, it is still uncertain that it "began to exist" in the way you are phrasing it. There are some people who think it didn't.

Perhaps you are granting agency to the universe itself, implying that the lawfulness of the universe is a manifestation of some intelligent agency. I'm still not sure.

.....

By saying 'everything with a beginning' he's trying to go full Kalaam by creating a conceptual disconnect between his god (which is a thing with no beginning) and the rest of reality (which had a beginning).
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16-06-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
There is no "atheist lifestyle". Atheism is a position as to belief in a particular thing (deities). It is not a worldview or a lifestyle or the basis of one. Atheists believe all sorts of things and do all sorts of things because atheism doesn't impose strictures or dogma. But most of us are pretty boring, actually.

Taking the position that I see no reason to believe in any gods at all, has not had any huge impact on my lifestyle. My personal situation would be entirely acceptable to traditional family values types.

Of course there are atheists with unconventional or hedonistic lifestyles, etc., but in my experience most atheists live quiet, responsible lives minding their own business. The thing that keeps people from having secret basement orgies, eating babies, and all the other things some fundamentalists imagine that atheists do, is the principle of social reciprocity. Atheists, like anyone else, want to have good jobs, and to participate as fully as possible in society, so we comport ourselves accordingly. Atheism is not a position taken to be contrary, rebellious, or hateful. It is a thought out metaphysical belief position, nothing more.
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16-06-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  From my part, I say that the concept of God as the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning is founded on facts and in accordance with logic.

You say it is so? Fine I'll bite. Demonstrate it. Show your testable, repeatable, falsifiable, and demonstrable evidence which you utilized to come to this conclusion.

(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  From your part you oppose my concept of God; in which case to be intelligent you must also present your reasons why you oppose my concept of God....
I oppose your concept of god because it stretches from the poorly defined all the way to the not defined at all, with what little that is defined is nonsensical special pleading or an attempt to define something into existence, and because in the defense of your superstition you have provided heaps of assertions and zero evidence or facts that lead incontrovertibly to a god and can't be used to come to a naturalistic explanation.

There is a good place for you to start.

(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  From my part, I will say that the facts of the universe having a beginning...
The post big bang universe could be argued to have a "beginning" however you have no way of showing that what makes up this universe did not have some form of existence before the big bang so to imply that "the universe came from nothing" is not actually provable. The universe could very well be eternal and have no true origin or "beginning" which is actually more probable then your god requiring fewer steps to explain.

You also have to deal with the fact that for something to "begin to exist" there must be a time when it did not exist, however time began with the big bang. So in very real terms there was never a "Time" when the universe did not exist. The universe has existed for all time thus far.


(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  in accordance with logic in particular the logic of causality
Cause and effect are only observed IN the universe if there is no universe, as you are implying there wasn't at one point, and there was in fact NOTHING then that includes matter, energy, and the laws that govern the universe. Of which cause and effect is.
So if before the universe existed there was nothing, then there is no law of cause and effect thus a effect can emerge without a cause.

You are trying to use laws of the universe to explain the origin of the universe using a law that does not exist until AFTER the universe does. The universe, in point of fact, does NOT call out for a cause.

(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  that cause is God, in concept as the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.
Yet that cause is undefined, nonsensical, special pleading and in violation of Occam's razor as an explanation due to an infinite universe requiring far less steps to explain then your god does.

(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  From you part...... you are saying in effect that God is nothing of creator and operator, and my concept is completely nonsense.
Your concept is nonsense because it is nonsensically explained and presented. We ARE saying that the evidence points to the universes origins being natural, that there is no demonstrable evidence for any god or gods involvement in the origin, ordering, or the management of the universe.

Let me ask you this: You say that everything in the universe has a beginning and thus cries out for a cause. But EVERYTHING in the universe that has a beginning has a beginning that can be explained NATURALLY so therefor is it not consistent that the cause of the universe would be natural? If zero beginnings are supernatural and ALL beginnings are natural then IF the universe does cry out for a cause then it cries out for a natural cause by your "logic".

To deny my conclusion is to undermine and refute your own. Have fun with that. Drinking Beverage

(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  ....what then is your explanation for the existence of a universe which according to science has a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago?
This might seem like a good question but it's actually not. The only correct answer is "I don't know" because given that we have no idea what was before the big bang (before might not even make sense as "before" is temporal). When I say we have no idea I mean none of us do, including you, we have no way of investigating before the big bang to see if there was a cause or not and thus to claim that it has a cause and more over that you know what it is is just a lie. you have no way at all of evaluating if that claim is factual, you just assert it and thus we dismiss it without investigation.
The reason that it's not a very good question, asides from being quasi-nonsensical, is that you are left with admitting " I don't know either" which is honest, or with you attempting to argue that because we don't have an explaination of our own therefore your assertion (it's not actually an explanation by definition) is correct, which is just fallacious and stupid obviously.

Either way I could make up dozens of explanations off the top of my head that would be better explanations then a god. They would be way more in line with Occam's Razor too.


(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear readers of this thread, let you see how Clockwork will write again, whether with respect to facts and logic, or again as usual with atheists, into dodging by clowning.
" Dear readers, lets see if clockwork respects facts and logic or if he is like the rest of your kind and just dodges and faffs about." Mixed singles much? lol


Here is the problem with this last bit....you have not presented any facts or logic for him TO respect. You have asserted that you have facts and have logic but you have not actually demonstrated it. Assertions are not facts and they are not logic. Right now you're just a guy saying stuff and not proving any of it. What are we just supposed to respect your bald faced assertion that you have facts and logic just because you claim it to be so?


Haha. No.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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16-06-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(16-06-2015 07:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(01-06-2015 02:06 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear readers of this thread, let you see how Clockwork will write again, whether with respect to facts and logic, or again as usual with atheists, into dodging by clowning.
" Dear readers, lets see if clockwork respects facts and logic or if he is like the rest of your kind and just dodges and faffs about." Mixed singles much? lol
I hope I'm not like his kind... I really hope I'm not.

(16-06-2015 07:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Here is the problem with this last bit....you have not presented any facts or logic for him TO respect.
I've given up on him presenting anything other than "feels." As I told him, he's not worth replying to since he refuses to accept my definition. Others are welcome to parry with him. If he doesn't take my definition, I'll request him to create a positive definition of his theism with regards to Odin and Marduk.
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31-07-2015, 04:40 PM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
(14-05-2012 04:16 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?

Like what things you do now or will do now which you did not do before or would prefer to not do before?


Pachomius

Nothing has really changed except that now I'm confident in relying on my own judgement. That is not so much a function of being an atheist but of having a rational philosophy. I can't think of anything I would do now that I wouldn't do then. I don't go around lying and cheating and stealing because I feel I am not accountable to anyone. The truth is I have always been accountable to myself, even when I was a christian. I've had a strong sense of right and wrong since I can remember only now I can articulate the reasons all the way down to fundamental principles. But that has nothing to do with being an atheist. That is just a trivial side issue.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-08-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
I'd like to ask you, Pachomius, what you would do differently if you were to become an atheist. If it is possible to imagine such a thing, what would you do differently?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-08-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: As an atheist now, what is your lifestyle at present?
Pachoman contracted a nasty case of Necropompous.

Embarrassing. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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