As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
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31-05-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
(31-05-2017 08:34 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(30-05-2017 06:13 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Yes, as RocketSurgeon has already mentioned, the language and imagery should be modern American English not Roman era Jewish.
He'll claim somehow they perfectly copied Roman Era Hebrew. And let's face it, no... Hebrew has changed and we can only guess at some words.

It's like when people I know translate things into French. They're almost right. It's not wrong but it's not right. I did the same thing in Spanish and my boricua buddy said I was so close but got a preposition wrong. It made sense the way I said it but it's not how they actually say it.

Imagine trying to perfectly write a language that no one has spoken in centuries. Google Translate aint helping, sunshine.

And then there are idioms, sunshine.

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31-05-2017, 09:16 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
(31-05-2017 08:42 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 08:34 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  He'll claim somehow they perfectly copied Roman Era Hebrew. And let's face it, no... Hebrew has changed and we can only guess at some words.

It's like when people I know translate things into French. They're almost right. It's not wrong but it's not right. I did the same thing in Spanish and my boricua buddy said I was so close but got a preposition wrong. It made sense the way I said it but it's not how they actually say it.

Imagine trying to perfectly write a language that no one has spoken in centuries. Google Translate aint helping, sunshine.

And then there are idioms, sunshine.

And the fact that a LOT OF Hebrew scripture of the Tanakh, the Histories, Law, Prophets, and Songs, was written almost entirely in deliberate idiom (per the language-custom of the time) and in their form of poetic writing, where ideas were rhymed rather than word-sounds, generally in couplets running throughout the story. There is absolutely no way anyone today could understand their type of idioms to the degree necessary to write anything that could pass muster with even a common reader of the scriptures, let alone a trained theologian (priest, Levite, rabbi, Pharisee, etc.) of that day.

It would be like an upper class white guy from Manhattan trying to walk into downtown Compton and start sidewalk gangsta-rapping, in front of a studio full of hard-core rappers, only times ten. Or times 2500, since that's how long it has been since these scriptures were written in the language/culture of their day, as opposed to the rappers, who share a (somewhat) common culture and language with the upper class New Yorker.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-05-2017, 09:39 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
Wow, it's always amazing the mental gymnastics people will perform to maintain their irrational beliefs. I wonder why God allowed this to happen? Atheists are more powerful and resourceful than God, yet again.

The weird thing is that this person is admitting that the evidence does not support their position. So their belief is irrational. They have no evidence of any of this conspiracy theory bullshit, so they're clearly just trying to bend reality to fit into their beliefs rather than facing it on its own terms.

It's kind of the same with God. Since there is no evidence, God must be hiding somewhere where there can't be any evidence of it. The monster under my bed must be invisible mummy. How can people not see how childish this all is? (I know the answer of course.)

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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31-05-2017, 09:45 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
I used to travel in time to promote our Visitor agenda before I figured you cats were to smart for that. Wink

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01-06-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
(31-05-2017 08:42 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 08:34 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  He'll claim somehow they perfectly copied Roman Era Hebrew. And let's face it, no... Hebrew has changed and we can only guess at some words.

It's like when people I know translate things into French. They're almost right. It's not wrong but it's not right. I did the same thing in Spanish and my boricua buddy said I was so close but got a preposition wrong. It made sense the way I said it but it's not how they actually say it.

Imagine trying to perfectly write a language that no one has spoken in centuries. Google Translate aint helping, sunshine.

And then there are idioms, sunshine.

I apologize. It sounded like I was calling you "sunshine." That was for the hypothetical person who believes the time travel stuff.
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10-06-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
Welp. I don't know where else to put this but Marshall Barnes put his papers in acadamia.edu, I had a profile there to check it out, So I was able to snag his papers.
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13-06-2017, 06:22 AM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
Damn. It's almost as though admitting that the religion is wrong is some sort of mortal sin.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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13-06-2017, 06:37 AM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
(13-06-2017 06:22 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Damn. It's almost as though admitting that the religion is wrong is some sort of mortal sin.

Not doing so is a moral sin.
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17-06-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
This is a great example of why you have to start from the Bible. When arguing with Christian apologists you need to begin with the many things the Bible says that they don't actually accept. For example: Jesus could not possibly have been the Messiah, because the Old Testament prophets didn't believe anything Jesus said about the resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment, the forgiveness of sins, or morality. Jesus could not possibly have been the Son of God because his most important prophecy turned out to be false (read Mark 13 - the entire chapter). The Bible could not possibly be the word of God because it is chock full of self contradictions, factual errors, false prophecies, and propaganda. If you cite passages from the Bible to prove your points -- and there are plenty to be found -- you will often find they retreat to an appeal to prayer. "If you were to just pray to God, He will tell you what is true!" But there are very good arguments to be made about the inefficacy of prayer, too.
A similar approach works for talking with Mormons, because they do believe that the Bible is the word of God. For Muslims you have to work from the Koran, but otherwise the method is the same. Start with something they claim to know, show that they don't know nearly as much about it as they think they do, and move on from there. Fundamentalism in all of its forms is based on a very skewed understanding of the "scriptures".
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17-06-2017, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2017 06:24 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: As soon as I mention the Archaeological findings, it goes off the rails
(17-06-2017 04:02 PM)thereverent1 Wrote:  This is a great example of why you have to start from the Bible. When arguing with Christian apologists you need to begin with the many things the Bible says that they don't actually accept. For example: Jesus could not possibly have been the Messiah, because the Old Testament prophets didn't believe anything Jesus said about the resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment, the forgiveness of sins, or morality.

Not really.
The *content* (of the Bible) is not the problem and you're getting it wrong in the very same way they are.The *problem* is not that prophecy is wrong, but that prophecy itself as a literary genre is not understood today, and it's MISUSED. The role of a prophet was not to tell the future. THAT'S what wrong with the picture. It's not *even* wrong, when used this way.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278

Quote:Jesus could not possibly have been the Son of God because his most important prophecy turned out to be false (read Mark 13 - the entire chapter).

Nope. That's not what's wrong there. What's wrong, is in Hebrew culture, being a "son of god" did not mean what it does today. It simply meant they were righteous men, (and many were called ''sons of god").
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articl...son-of-god
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/messiah

Quote:The Bible could not possibly be the word of God because it is chock full of self contradictions, factual errors, false prophecies, and propaganda.

Not really. What's wrong with that idea, is that (Greek) Gnostic Christians cooked up the concept "word of god" and it's not *even* wrong. It's not a Hebrew idea, (not "Biblical") and the authors never claimed it was.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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