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28-07-2014, 06:37 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 04:44 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 04:24 PM)Impulse Wrote:  So you're a deist then?
If there is a such thing as a Deist/Agnostic/HereticCatholic, that's kind of where I'm at.

The title of this thread should have been ask a FALLEN AWAY Catholic.

I loathe much of what is in the Bible and all these fundies and evangelicals that point out a verse of Scripture and use it to bash other people including Christians.

The Bible has so much bullshit and ludicrous crap, and so many contradictions, and so many verses that lead people to opposite opinions and beliefs, I just despise nothing more than people of the book.

If you read the Catechism or the teachings of the Church Magisterium, it makes way WAY more sense than the Bible. Since Catholicism is not a Religion of the book and because Fundies think Catholicism is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope will be the Antichrist, I absolutely love to defend Catholicism when I meet them.
Laugh out load
I see. Thanks for clarifying because I was confused about where you were coming from. When I was a Catholic, I could have defended easily against Protestant criticisms myself. It's just that now I have a special loathing for Catholicism because it's personal - having been part of my life. So I can't imagine defending it for any reason at this point. But that's just me. Tongue

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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28-07-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
Wicked- if my magic rock has the exact powers and nature of the catholic god and I claim that all of things that god has supposedly did, were actually acts of my magic rock, what steps could we take to see which one of us is right or maybe neither of us is right ?

How do we determine which claim might be the truth ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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28-07-2014, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2014 08:04 PM by Wicked Clown.)
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 06:38 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Wicked- if my magic rock has the exact powers and nature of the catholic god and I claim that all of things that god has supposedly did, were actually acts of my magic rock, what steps could we take to see which one of us is right or maybe neither of us is right ?

How do we determine which claim might be the truth ?
I'd want to see some Miracles

Quote:I see. Thanks for clarifying because I was confused about where you were coming from. When I was a Catholic, I could have defended easily against Protestant criticisms myself. It's just that now I have a special loathing for Catholicism because it's personal - having been part of my life. So I can't imagine defending it for any reason at this point. But that's just me. Tongue

Okay, here's the scoop. There is much that I hate about Religion. So I'll defend the Atheist and Agnostic stance when I debate with Christians.

However, there is much that I admire about Religion, which I will defend if I think people are being unreasonable in their stating with certainty that every mystical experience is a delusion, there are no miracles, prayer and faith have or serve no purpose, or with certainty that there is no intelligent providential force that is responsible for our existence.

I have seen lives transformed by Faith, and in many ways I was a better person when I had Catholic Faith. Had I not converted to Catholicism when I did, I'd not be surprised if I wouldn't be in prison or dead right now.

A lot of the virtues that I learned from the writings of the Saints I still practice. My conversion to Catholicism lead to a totally new heart, mind, and Conscience for me. Which I still have even though I no longer practice Catholicism.

There is much that the Church, the Pope, and the Saints teach that I think is extremely wise, noble, moral, and without reproach. It's just I can't embrace a lot of the other Dogmas, especially the Eucharist, Eternal Damnation, the idea that our suffering (crosses) atone for sin, or the glorification of suffering (penance).

Quote:P.s. I did my AA 5th step with an old catholic priest who liked Hinduism.

Catholic Spirituality has more similarities to Hindu Spirituality than any other Christian branch. I can give you an explanation if you like.
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28-07-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 04:17 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  That is precisely because I had such an attachment to Catholicism for the six years that I was Catholic. I read Church History, the Catechism, Catholic Encyclopedias, and it was the most precious and interesting thing to me.

I'm still intrigued by Catholicism and the wisdom of the Saints and the prophesies that have come true and what it is that gave the martyrs so much strength, and all the conspiracies about who founded the Catholic Church, and the Marian Apparitions....etc.

So I'm not saying I know more about Catholicism than you, but I know more about Catholicism than anything else I've studied so I'm sharing what I know about something that was extremely precious to me and was the treasure of my heart from the age of 20 to the age of 27.

I'm not an atheist. I'm someone who will ask a person of any faith to pray for me and I will listen to their testimony and whatever wisdom they have to offer. If they speak from the heart, I'm interested. I believe there is power in prayer and believe that human beings are spiritual people.

I have a repugnance for Religion and no longer agree with the Catholic Church, but still am interested in the topic.

Except there are no prophecies that came true. None. Nada. Zilch. Zip. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-07-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 06:24 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 04:44 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  If there is a such thing as a Deist/Agnostic/HereticCatholic, that's kind of where I'm at.

The title of this thread should have been ask a FALLEN AWAY Catholic.

I loathe much of what is in the Bible and all these fundies and evangelicals that point out a verse of Scripture and use it to bash other people including Christians.

The Bible has so much bullshit and ludicrous crap, and so many contradictions, and so many verses that lead people to opposite opinions and beliefs, I just despise nothing more than people of the book.

If you read the Catechism or the teachings of the Church Magisterium, it makes way WAY more sense than the Bible. Since Catholicism is not a Religion of the book and because Fundies think Catholicism is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope will be the Antichrist, I absolutely love to defend Catholicism when I meet them.
Laugh out load

You argue obliquely and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
You will find that many people love to argue in black and white; no middle ground.
Some look at 'nuancing' as some sort of disease. Epistemology needs to be open and not entirely logically self assured. In the cosmos there may be other reasoning phenomena.
The fact that you haven't been abused or denigrated too much may suggest that you are travelling rather well...............Carry on!

Woof, meet clown. Clown, meet woof.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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28-07-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 09:22 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 06:24 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  You argue obliquely and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
You will find that many people love to argue in black and white; no middle ground.
Some look at 'nuancing' as some sort of disease. Epistemology needs to be open and not entirely logically self assured. In the cosmos there may be other reasoning phenomena.
The fact that you haven't been abused or denigrated too much may suggest that you are travelling rather well...............Carry on!

Woof, meet clown. Clown, meet woof.

What do you mean exactly.
Perhaps you could elaborate?
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28-07-2014, 11:42 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(27-07-2014 06:56 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Catholic clergy do not offend more than teachers or those of other religious denominations. They also have had their cover ups as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Standard-Sc...1453730699

Also, I meant the Catholic Faith can be good for children. That is the teachings of the Church, not the behavior of Pedophile priests who violate the vows that they made to God and to the Church to not do such things.

I fail to see how pretending to know what you don't know (a.k.a faith) can be good for anybody, let alone children. Furthermore, I don't see it as an improvement on epistemological systems that are based on evidence, testing, and observation. With faith there is no objectivity, only subjective interpretation.

Now if by "catholic faith" you mean the religion in general then I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said.

Travis

-Ideas Pull the Trigger but Instinct Loads the Gun
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29-07-2014, 02:05 AM
RE: Ask A Catholic
By saying that you might be in prison right now if it weren't for a delusion you have in your mind is fairly serious. You would harm other people, perhaps steal or break other laws, knowing full well what the consequences would be if it weren't for imaginary consequences that you believed might happen if you didn't believe that a fictional character was responsible for saving you from an imaginary god who wants to harm you for eternity.

Imaginary consequences kept you in check but the actual real consequences wouldn't stop you from harming others ? Do you have any morals ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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29-07-2014, 03:26 AM
RE: Ask A Catholic
Where's my answer?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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29-07-2014, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2014 03:46 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ask A Catholic
(28-07-2014 09:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-07-2014 04:17 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  That is precisely because I had such an attachment to Catholicism for the six years that I was Catholic. I read Church History, the Catechism, Catholic Encyclopedias, and it was the most precious and interesting thing to me.

I'm still intrigued by Catholicism and the wisdom of the Saints and the prophesies that have come true and what it is that gave the martyrs so much strength, and all the conspiracies about who founded the Catholic Church, and the Marian Apparitions....etc.

So I'm not saying I know more about Catholicism than you, but I know more about Catholicism than anything else I've studied so I'm sharing what I know about something that was extremely precious to me and was the treasure of my heart from the age of 20 to the age of 27.

I'm not an atheist. I'm someone who will ask a person of any faith to pray for me and I will listen to their testimony and whatever wisdom they have to offer. If they speak from the heart, I'm interested. I believe there is power in prayer and believe that human beings are spiritual people.

I have a repugnance for Religion and no longer agree with the Catholic Church, but still am interested in the topic.

Except there are no prophecies that came true. None. Nada. Zilch. Zip. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

There's also the fact that "prophecies that *come true* " is complete ignorance of the role of a prophet and prophecy in ancient Israel, (as anyone who has taken Biblical Studies 101 knows). I actually took my first class in it, and learned that from the Chairman of a prominent Catholic University Biblical Studies department who was on loan to my Ivy League school. He was a priest. (Since I was younger than everyone else in the class, he was pretty nice to me ... I often wonder when he left, as he's no longer a priest. He was a decent archaeologist. I used to think "What is someone as smart as you *doing this* for?" ). Prophecy is/was not the prediction of future events. That's a very common mistake of uneducated religionists.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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