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27-07-2014, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 07:04 PM by Wicked Clown.)
Ask A Catholic
Okay I don't believe in what the Catholic Church teaches anymore but I was a seasoned apologist when I was Catholic. I'm hoping I can debate Protestants and you might wonder, "well then why the fuck are you posting it at an Atheist forum".

It is because Christian forums are like elementary school. You can get banned for dropping an F bomb or disparaging God or the holy Bible. I'd like to debate Protestants on a forum that isn't superficial and you don't have to act like you grew up in a sheltered homeschooled environment.

Okay, so for you "Bible Christians", who think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, which most of you do, I can show you that Catholicism is more Biblical than you.

Why are so many Protestants converting to Catholicism?

The councils that decided the Canon of Scripture that would be in the first Christian Bible took place after Christianity became the official Religion of the Roman Empire and therefore it was the Roman Catholic Church that put together the first Bible and decided the New Testament Canon that is accepted by noncatholics.

There is overwhelming evidence that the Catholic Church began in the first century and that the Papacy is nearly 2,000 years old http://www.catholic.com/tracts/browse/Papacy

Most of what people think is extremely Unchristian (Satanic) about the Church like Mariology, confession of sin to a priest, the sacrifice of the mass, seven sacraments, communion of Saints, Holy images etc. was practiced by the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Coptic, and Orthodox Churches...

...so if those practices are Satanic and therefore not Christian as many claim, that would mean that every Christian Church on the face of the earth was propagating Satanic practices and therefore, there was not a Christian Church the earth before the 16th Century. if you follow that philosophy

So you say the Bible decides, but this begs the question when the two warring parties agree that the Bible is the final authority yet disagree on the interpretation where do we go?

Since there is a document that many are divided on wouldnt God leave us with a Supreme Court to interpret it and settle Doctrinal or interpretational disputes?

Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.

Catholicism formally (although, sadly, not always in practice) prevents the theological "pick and choose" state of affairs, which leads to the uncertainties and "every man for himself" confusion within the private interpretation system among laypeople.

Catholicism retains apostolic succession, necessary to know what is true Christian apostolic Tradition. It was the criterion of Christian truth used by the early Christians and the Church Fathers.

Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity (having introduced many doctrines previously accepted by no Church, or very few individuals). Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its novelties and absurdly late appearance.

The Catholic Church accepts the authority of the ecumenical councils which defined and developed Christian doctrine such as the Trinity and the Nicene Creed which are embraced by most Protestants

Protestantism has too often neglected the place of liturgy in worship (with notable exceptions such as Anglicanism and Lutheranism). This is the way Christians had always worshiped down through the centuries, and thus cant be so lightly dismissed.

Many Protestant denominations have removed the Eucharist from the center and focus of Christian worship services. This is against many centuries of Christian Tradition and therefore should not be lightly dismissed.

Most Protestants (Lutherans and high-church Anglicans being the exception) believe in a merely symbolic Eucharist, which is contrary to universal Christian Tradition up to 1517, the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, and the Bible (Mt 26:26-8; Jn 6:47-63; 1 Cor 10:14-22; 11:23-30), which hold to the Real Presence

Protestantism has abolished the priesthood (Mt 18:18) and the sacrament of ordination, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Acts 6:6; 14:22; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6).

The majority of Protestants deny baptismal regeneration, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5).

Protestantism denies the indissolubility of sacramental marriage and allows divorce, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Gen 2:24; Mal 2:14-16; Mt 5:32; 19:6,9; Mk
10:11-12; Lk 16:18; Rom 7:2-3; 1 Cor 7:10-14,39).

Many Protestant denominations (mostly its liberal wing, but alarmingly in many other places, too) have changed their previous stances on women pastors, abortion, and homosexuality. Catholicism remains firm on what it has always taught of such behavior being forbidden or gravely sinful.

Women pastors is contrary to Christian Tradition (including traditional Protestant theology) and the Bible (Mt 10:1-4; 1 Tim 2:11-15; 3:1-12; Titus 1:6).

Protestantism sanctions contraception,(they changed their stance) in defiance of universal Christian Tradition (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) up until 1930 - when the Anglicans first allowed it - and the Bible (Gen 38:8-10; 41:52; Ex 23:25-6; Lev 26:9; Deut 7:14; Ruth 4:13; Lk 1:24-5). Luther and Calvin, e.g., regarded it as murder. Now, only Catholicism retains the ancient Biblical Tradition.

Protestantism has contradictory views of church government, or ecclesiology (episcopal, presbyterian, congregational, or no collective authority at all), thus making widespread discipline, unity and order impossible.Some sects even claim to have "apostles" or "prophets" among them, with all the accompanying abuses of authority resulting there from and false predictions of the end times and belief's like the Rapture.

Sola scriptura could be considered an abuse of the Bible, since it is a use of the Bible contrary to its explicit and implicit testimony about itself and Tradition.The Bible is, in fact, undeniably a Christian Tradition itself.

Most Protestants do not have bishops, a Christian office which is biblical (1 Tim 3:1-2) and which has existed from the earliest Christian history and Tradition.

Protestantism has no way of settling doctrinal issues definitively. At best, the individual Protestant can only take a head count of how many Protestant scholars, commentators, etc. take such-and-such a view on Doctrine or interpretation x, y, or z; Or (in a more sophisticated fashion), the Protestant can simply accept the authority of some denominational tradition, confession, or creed (which then has to be justified over against the other competing ones). There is no unified Protestant Tradition.

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27-07-2014, 05:54 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2014 07:01 PM by Wicked Clown.)
RE: Ask A Catholic
Now I think that contraception has often done us great service. The same can be said for abortion as well but abortion can and often does do a lot of damage and should be a last resort (imho.)

Also, I think it's great that Protestant denominations allow women pastors, but that doesn't change the fact that it is unbiblical and they claim that they are "Bible Christians".

The first Christians were not Bible Christians, and neither are Evangelicals or Fundamentalists.

I may not have any more knowledge about Catholicism than you, but if you have a question about Catholicism I might be able to answer it for you.
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27-07-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
I was catholic, too. I got over it around age 11.


That was a long time ago.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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27-07-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
I left the Catholic Church behind many years ago. No questions, no longer care.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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27-07-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
Catholicism can be good for children I think. But Eventually one who thinks rationally will grow out of it.

I don't think Catholicism is as bizarre as the hard core Bible fundies though. The Catholic Church doesn't declare that everyone who dies Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Protestant etc. is definitely in Hell.
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27-07-2014, 06:09 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
The only way Catholicism is good for kids is that it makes more kids due to the ban on birth control. Other than that, it's the same shit different smell.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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27-07-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(27-07-2014 05:58 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Catholicism can be good for children I think. But Eventually one who thinks rationally will grow out of it.

I don't think Catholicism is as bizarre as the hard core Bible fundies though. The Catholic Church doesn't declare that everyone who dies Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Protestant etc. is definitely in Hell.

"Catholicism" and "good for children" do not belong in the same sentence.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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27-07-2014, 06:15 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(27-07-2014 06:13 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 05:58 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Catholicism can be good for children I think. But Eventually one who thinks rationally will grow out of it.

I don't think Catholicism is as bizarre as the hard core Bible fundies though. The Catholic Church doesn't declare that everyone who dies Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Protestant etc. is definitely in Hell.

"Catholicism" and "good for children" do not belong in the same sentence.

Beat me to it...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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27-07-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
Here are the duties of a Catholic. If Catholics would be faithful to their duties I'd be impressed.

How does a Catholic get to Heaven?:

Seven corporal works of Mercy:

To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbour the harbourless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead.

The spiritual works of mercy are:

To instruct the ignorant;
To counsel the doubtful;
To admonish sinners;
To bear wrongs patiently;
To forgive offences willingly;
To comfort the afflicted;
To pray for the living and the dead.

Those are the Duties of a Catholic. No where in the official teachings of the Church does it say the duties of a Catholic are to molest children, burn heretics, or worship statues. Such behavior is the opposite of what the Church teaches.
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27-07-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic
(27-07-2014 06:17 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Here are the duties of a Catholic. If Catholics would be faithful to their duties I'd be impressed.

How does a Catholic get to Heaven?:

Seven corporal works of Mercy:

To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbour the harbourless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead.

The spiritual works of mercy are:

To instruct the ignorant;
To counsel the doubtful;
To admonish sinners;
To bear wrongs patiently;
To forgive offences willingly;
To comfort the afflicted;
To pray for the living and the dead.

Those are the Duties of a Catholic. No where in the official teachings of the Church does it say the duties of a Catholic are to molest children, burn heretics, or worship statues. Such behavior is the opposite of what the Church teaches.

Yet those who would do such things easily use the church teachings to defend such actions, with the exception of molestation. In that case they just use the actual church to get away with it.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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