Ask An Ex-Catholic/Buddhist/Ninja/Biblical Scholar!
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03-02-2012, 07:34 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 01:13 PM by Nagoda.)
Ask An Ex-Catholic/Buddhist/Ninja/Biblical Scholar!
So, KC suggested I make a seperate thread, and so, I did. Before any of you post, I am NOT a conservative/traditionalist Catholic. I come from the liberal variety and my academic background is in the Humanities and secular Biblical Studies. That being said, HAVE AT ME!!! Big Grin
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03-02-2012, 07:48 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
Ooohhh ... my wife was a Catholic. Here's my question. Why would the Catholic Church permit an avowed atheist to wed a devout catholic in the Church blessed by a priest with only the promise that I would not interfere with our children's religious upbringing? I kept my promise and kept out of their metaphysics and 25 years, 4 fine young adult atheists and an enlightened wife later, I'm not confident in your Church's business plan. It doesn't feel sustainable.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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03-02-2012, 07:50 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
That's very sporting of you!

However I am again saddened by the lack of stereotypical religious wandering our hallowed halls. I mean you're barely a catholic by the standards of television and film.

I wonder why it is that no run of the mill religious care to open themselves up to question here.

Still I appreciate your potential willingness to be open for discussion.

I have no questions for you however.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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03-02-2012, 08:10 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 08:11 PM by Nagoda.)
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 07:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Ooohhh ... my wife was a Catholic. Here's my question. Why would the Catholic Church permit an avowed atheist to wed a devout catholic in the Church blessed by a priest with only the promise that I would not interfere with our children's religious upbringing? I kept my promise and kept out of their metaphysics and 25 years, 4 fine young adult atheists and an enlightened wife later, I'm not confident in your Church's business plan. It doesn't feel sustainable.

In fact I can. The Church has become more open minded in the past 40 years or so to non catholics and even non christians marrying Catholics. The only catch is that the children must be taught the faith and raised. I suppose this is the Church's way of ensuring continuity, but like you said, it doesn't always work out that way. The beauty of free will is that it's free, not a dictatorship. Why would they allow this? Simple, liberals like me did a takeover in the 70s and told the hierarchy to smarten up and stop acting like discriminatory douchebags. It worked for a while, but then JPII and now Benedict got in power and began reversing the equality stuff we pushed for with Vatican Council II and beyond.

That being said, I will however point out that because you are an atheist, even though you are married in the RCC, your marriage is not considered a sacrament. A marriage, according to Cannon law, is only a sacrament between two Christians, because I believe the union between these two Christians (and I believe in this case that only appleis to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and not Protestants, but I could be wrong on that) reflects God's love for the Church, and thus this is the deeper mystery that has been revealed. Hence marriage between christians is the symbolic act of this deeper revelation, hence why its considered a sacrament (sacrament equals physical symbolic act that reveals a deeper spiritual relaity).

Really, I don't get that last bit either, but there you have it. And to my knowledge, most Protestants don't consider marriage to be a sacrament because they don't buy the above explanation and think its pretty much BS.
(03-02-2012 07:50 PM)lucradis Wrote:  That's very sporting of you!

However I am again saddened by the lack of stereotypical religious wandering our hallowed halls. I mean you're barely a catholic by the standards of television and film.

I wonder why it is that no run of the mill religious care to open themselves up to question here.

Still I appreciate your potential willingness to be open for discussion.

I have no questions for you however.

LOL
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03-02-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
Welcome.

My assumption is that you are here for one of two reasons:

1. You have serious doubts about your faith, but if you can defend it against some quite talented atheists you will convince yourself that the faith is viable and worth sticking to.

2. You have logically lost your faith, but emotionally you are still hanging in there. Getting atheists to beat the remaining emotional ties out of you is your next step in the progress to free thinking. Sort of like suicide by cop.

I believe you will get what you need here.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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03-02-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
Welcome Nagoda. I appreciate you opening yourself up to questions. Mine isn't unique but it is always something that bothers me. I believe in science because science makes claims based on evidence. It seems to me that the only evidence religious people have is their particular book of choice. True?

.
I wasn't . . . until I was
I am . . . until I'm not
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03-02-2012, 08:29 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 08:11 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Welcome.

My assumption is that you are here for one of two reasons:

1. You have serious doubts about your faith, but if you can defend it against some quite talented atheists you will convince yourself that the faith is viable and worth sticking to.

2. You have logically lost your faith, but emotionally you are still hanging in there. Getting atheists to beat the remaining emotional ties out of you is your next step in the progress to free thinking. Sort of like suicide by cop.

I believe you will get what you need here.

Closer to two actually, but not quite. I lost my faith logically about a year ago. I believe now entirely on gut instinct and intuition. Call that irrational, but I find it irrational to trust a society that actively prizes reason and logic over trusting your instincts. I think its something that we have in fact lost touch with as a species. To me logic does not supersede the instinct, its meant to work with it. If you want to call that blind faith, that is fair and I can see why, but like how Semmelweiz (I think thats how you spell it) couldn't prove the existence of germs and was ridiculed by the scientific community for positing their existence based on a strong hunch, I will continue to trust my gut in regards to my belief in the supernatural.

And you think that I "need" atheism? That I need "help"? I'm sorry, I usually don't get pissed off, and am usually quite calm, but I find your last statement to be incredibly arrogant. It sounds like something you'd hear from a hardcore evangelist. Again, I am quite sorry for being so uncharitable towards you, but I hate it when someone thinks their ideology is better than others and if only the others could see it the way they do....

If I'm being out of line here, you can all call me out for it and I'll understand. Sorry for getting defensive and pissed off!
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03-02-2012, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 08:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 08:10 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  That being said, I will however point out that because you are an atheist, even though you are married in the RCC, your marriage is not considered a sacrament.

And ManlyGirl and I should give a shit why?

(03-02-2012 08:10 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  A marriage, according to Cannon law, is only a sacrament between two Christians, ... Hence marriage between christians is the symbolic act of this deeper revelation, hence why its considered a sacrament (sacrament equals physical symbolic act that reveals a deeper spiritual relaity).

ManlyGirl and I don't feel no need for no church to experience the sacraments. Coitus seems sufficient.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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03-02-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 08:29 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  Closer to two actually, but not quite. I lost my faith logically about a year ago. I believe now entirely on gut instinct and intuition. Call that irrational, but I find it irrational to trust a society that actively prizes reason and logic over trusting your instincts. I think its something that we have in fact lost touch with as a species. To me logic does not supersede the instinct, its meant to work with it. If you want to call that blind faith, that is fair and I can see why, but like how Semmelweiz (I think thats how you spell it) couldn't prove the existence of germs and was ridiculed by the scientific community for positing their existence based on a strong hunch, I will continue to trust my gut in regards to my belief in the supernatural.

I hear this kind of thing from the moderate/liberal Christians quite often. It's a bizarre line of thinking, because you're attempting to provide a logical argument to show we don't need logic.
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03-02-2012, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 08:41 PM by Nagoda.)
RE: Ask A Catholic!
(03-02-2012 08:21 PM)free2011 Wrote:  Welcome Nagoda. I appreciate you opening yourself up to questions. Mine isn't unique but it is always something that bothers me. I believe in science because science makes claims based on evidence. It seems to me that the only evidence religious people have is their particular book of choice. True?

I would add to that I think faith in a deity is based on a very strong instinctual inclination that really cant at the moment be proven to be true or false. You trust your logic and rationality. I trust my primal gut. Both I think are valid positions to take, since both have served us incredibly well as a species in the past. Both have also proven to be horribly wrong. Yes, I will admit, I believe based on a hunch as I said in the above post, but, I think for me to deny that hunch, to deny my gut instinct on this matter, would be utter insanity for me personally. Ironicaly, for me to abandon that and become an atheist, seems incredibly irrational for me and I just can't bring myself to do it. I have tried to do it in the past, and man how I've wanted to not believe, and still do, but everytime I go there, the world never feels quite right to me and my gut screams at me that atheism is wrong. I'm sure you guys feel the same way about theism and I respect you guys for it.
(03-02-2012 08:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-02-2012 08:10 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  That being said, I will however point out that because you are an atheist, even though you are married in the RCC, your marriage is not considered a sacrament.

And ManlyGirl and I should give a shit why?

(03-02-2012 08:10 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  A marriage, according to Cannon law, is only a sacrament between two Christians, ... Hence marriage between christians is the symbolic act of this deeper revelation, hence why its considered a sacrament (sacrament equals physical symbolic act that reveals a deeper spiritual relaity).

ManlyGirl and I don't feel no need for no church to experience the sacraments. Coitus seems sufficient.

Completely fair, I was just pointing out an additional fact. Perhaps I should've kept my mouth shut, I apologize. Mea culpa.
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